Motorcycle non o-ring chains

[Superflan]

Hi,

From the day I started riding motorcycles, I always had non o-ring chains. Then when I had my first "big" bike (V-Strom 650), it was fitten from the factory with X-ring chain. When time for replacement came, I fitted a Heavy Duty non o-ring chain. What a difference in driveability feeling and sensible performance improvement!! Though the wear, even with good lubrification, can't match eith a standard o-ring chain, I can't believe I would go back to o-rings or x-rings chains. I've just fitted a DID ERT2 to my 125cc Varadero and will see how long it will last when oiled before each ride.

What's your take on chains?

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Superflan
Hi,


What's your take on chains?


I take offence at chains.

The exposed chain is perhaps the most ****-witted feature on the modern motorcycle, and there's lots of competition.

It's perhaps no accident that classic BMW's are shaft-drive. All that grit on all those moving parts? Germans probably just can't stand it.

Not so bad with an enclosed chain case, preferably running in an oil bath, as some commie 2 strokes had, but that'd be, like, soooooo UNCOOL.

Bikers, y'know?

 

[Fastcompany]

I used to drag race a quad. I thought a gold series x ring would be the way to go. I would always deep fry my chain with 75-90 wipe it down and spray belray super clean on it. What I found is that I would stretch the best chain I could buy just as fast as the cheapest chain. So I stopped buying o ring chains and ran standard ones without a problem...I guess the o rings help when riding around in the rain. I've never seen an issue with belray on a clean chain though. Sticks pretty good even in rain. And I know chains are old tech but I just like seeing them on a bike. It's like running 2 coil overs in the back vs a mono shock. The mono shock is better and lighter but don't you like seeing those could on the outside? On the note of an oil bath I recently rebuilt the drive for a BMW isseta. Double chain in an oil bath that looks like it could hold a side step of a clutch at 300 hp and an isseta has 13 lol

 

[Claud]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Superflan
Hi,


What's your take on chains?


I take offence at chains.

The exposed chain is perhaps the most ****-witted feature on the modern motorcycle, and there's lots of competition.

It's perhaps no accident that classic BMW's are shaft-drive. All that grit on all those moving parts? Germans probably just can't stand it.

Not so bad with an enclosed chain case, preferably running in an oil bath, as some commie 2 strokes had, but that'd be, like, soooooo UNCOOL.

Bikers, y'know?


The inherent flaw with shaft drive is torque reaction, that is the engine trying to rotate the bike, not a problem on a touring bike like a BMW or old British Sunbeam, but no use on a drag strip or race track.

Claud

 

[Silk]

O ring chains are heavy and stiff, there must be a performance loss. I don't use them on trials bikes, remove, clean and soak...I used to use 2 chains, pull the dirty dry one off with the clean lubed chain.

 

[LoneRanger]

If I get another bike, and that's a toss up after my really bad accident and bone damage, I'll likely get a shaft drive. Oh the carefree operation of shafts when compared to chains. As long as the crank shaft and drive shaft are parallel as in the BMW's, Moto Guzzi's, Honda VFR's, and others I don't think drivetrain loss is too bad, but with bikes like the FJR1300 where the crank and shaft are 90 degrees to each other there has to be excessive loss, yes?

 

[Chris142]

O-ring chains last years. Standard chains just a few weeks. I'm not worried about a slight power loss.

 

[Finn]

Belt. Case closed.

 

[SZR48207]

I would run non-o-ring for racing where the bike gets serviced heavily between races.

But for commuting use, I stick with X ring chains.

I've seen the "red dust of death" that appears when a non-o-ring chain isn't gingerly cared for and don't want to spend my time worrying.

 

[Langanobob]

I have a shaft drive BMW. The shaft drive system is such a piece of unreliable high maintenance garbage that I half seriously considered designing a chain drive conversion kit. No surprise that BMW went to chain drive on their later high performance bikes.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Superflan
Hi,


What's your take on chains?


I take offence at chains.

The exposed chain is perhaps the most ****-witted feature on the modern motorcycle, and there's lots of competition.

It's perhaps no accident that classic BMW's are shaft-drive. All that grit on all those moving parts? Germans probably just can't stand it.

Not so bad with an enclosed chain case, preferably running in an oil bath, as some commie 2 strokes had, but that'd be, like, soooooo UNCOOL.

Bikers, y'know?

 

[Dyusik]

I agree with the belt, they seem to last just as much, only they are clean and maintenance free. I wish the Harley wasn't so witless so that I can compare the belt to chain more accurately.

 

[Atesz792]

Never used a non-O-ring chain on a motorcycle.
Let's assume a semi-auto chain oiler (push of a button type, for example the Lubeman).
Would it really not last a season?

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Claud
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Superflan
Hi,


What's your take on chains?


I take offence at chains.

The exposed chain is perhaps the most ****-witted feature on the modern motorcycle, and there's lots of competition.

It's perhaps no accident that classic BMW's are shaft-drive. All that grit on all those moving parts? Germans probably just can't stand it.

Not so bad with an enclosed chain case, preferably running in an oil bath, as some commie 2 strokes had, but that'd be, like, soooooo UNCOOL.

Bikers, y'know?


The inherent flaw with shaft drive is torque reaction, that is the engine trying to rotate the bike, not a problem on a touring bike like a BMW or old British Sunbeam, but no use on a drag strip or race track.

Claud


I'd be no use on a drag strip or a race track either.

 

[MoreCowbellAz]

Since I don't buy race bikes any more, dirt or street, I wouldn't even consider any bike with a chain, belts or shaft only for me. Chains are a 100% deal breaker for me because of the hassle with lube and adjustments and noise.

That said, I used to have excellent life on non o-ring chains on my CFR450R, I just lubed every day with dry wax lube and it worked great. I had an o-ring chain on all my road race bikes of course, worked fine too and I assume everyone knows the stiffness goes away once warm. No loss of power, otherwise pro road race teams wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole, guaranteed.

But anything that got any kind of mileage whatsoever, no way do I want the hassle of a chain. After experiencing the belt on my Harley I'd have to say that's probably the best all around solution. Simple, quiet, cheap, what's not to like? I'd love to see Harley engineer the rest of weirdness out of some of their designs though (aka "character" to some), but I digress.

 

[brave sir robin]

Everything about motorcycle ownership and operation is a "hassle".
bugs covering your face...hassle
lack of ac and a heater....hassle
getting blown around by crosswinds...hassle
not having a trunk....hassle
batteries lasting half as long as cars...hassle

I'm convinced a large portion of the enjoyment of riding comes from the fact that it takes a little bit of effort and commitment otherwise we would all be rolling around in Honda Accords.

It takes 3.5 seconds to check chain tension and ten to fifteen minutes to adjust the chain on my bike. If you are finding it needs to be adjusted on a monthly basis it means the sprocket and or chain is worn out anyway. I have gone six plus months and 5k miles between needed adjustments on properly lubed and tensioned chains.


the bare mechanical minimalist look of them is quite nice too.
I replaced the sprockets and chain on my bike a couple weekends ago

a e s t h e t i c

 

[Claud]

Belts make sense, top fuel dragster blower belts deal with 5-6oo hp loads I believe.

Claud.

 

[Kawiguy454]

Wax based lubes applied on an non O-Ring chain the lube soaks into the bushings and the wax seals the lube in and dirt out as the carrier evaporates.

O-ring chains have lube sealed inside the bushings so you only need to take care of the rubber rings so they don't dry or crack and stay slippery. A mistake people make on these is aynally cleaning them with solvents and washing out the lubricant. WD or kero on a rag to clean lightly avoids this. I have had O-Ring chains last over 30k miles no problem.

 

[brave sir robin]

Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
Wax based lubes applied on an non O-Ring chain the lube soaks into the bushings and the wax seals the lube in and dirt out as the carrier evaporates.

O-ring chains have lube sealed inside the bushings so you only need to take care of the rubber rings so they don't dry or crack and stay slippery. A mistake people make on these is aynally cleaning them with solvents and washing out the lubricant. WD or kero on a rag to clean lightly avoids this. I have had O-Ring chains last over 30k miles no problem.


I have been experimenting with dipping corner of an old shirt in some used oil and wiping the chain down while making sure the rings get wet then taking the other part of the shirt to wipe off the excess. This appears to leave the chain with a slightly wet look that does not attract nearly as much gunk as a dedicated sticky chain lube would.

I think my fancy pants X-ring chain will probably last at least 25k miles at the minimum.

 

[1foxracing]

Every drive system has it's advantages & disadvantages.
O-ring or X-ring chain, last a long time and easy maintenance. Has more friction and one time I did see a 600cc sportbike gain 3HP at the back wheel by switching over to a non-sealed chain and back to back Dyno runs.
Standard non O-ring chain transfer the most power with least amount of drag/friction, very popular with drag racers. They don't last very long and in my experience can be very messy.
Belt drive, last a long time and minor adjustments over it's life time. disadvantages are no easy way to make gearing changes now and they are a pain in the [censored] to change out that often includes swingarm removal.
Shaft drive, quiet and fairly low maintenance (non BMW types) Unfortunately they also eat the most horsepower of any drive system and BMW types (especially GS models) are not reliable in my experience. Just search the internet and you can see several examples of them glowing red and burning up with less then 30,000 miles.
If you pay attention you will notice BMW doesn't use their dumb designs on the top tier S1000 RR, shaft drive, telelever fork, turn signal switches on both bars....
I own 17 motorcycles and only one of them is shaft drive, my 1979 Yamaha XS1100, Yamaha knows how to make a reliable shaft system, The rest of my bikes are all chain drive and all have O-ring style chains.

 

[MoreCowbellAz]

Originally Posted By: brave sir robin


I have been experimenting with dipping corner of an old shirt in some used oil and wiping the chain down while making sure the rings get wet then taking the other part of the shirt to wipe off the excess. This appears to leave the chain with a slightly wet look that does not attract nearly as much gunk as a dedicated sticky chain lube would.


I do something very similar that you may find effective. Bear in mind for chains (dirt bike, street bike, bicycle, whatever) I got away from all the sticky lubes and went to dry wax lubes, but regardless to clean the chain I spray some of the lube on a rag and use that to wipe down the chain, there's so much evaporative carrier in those lubes that it's an excellent solvent as well, and of course it dries afterwards.