Motorcraft University

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You will never see me as you're never ready – I'll never want your straw. Bonkers? Who said bonkers? If the MC prof said bonkers I'll go look up what bonkers means ;-)
But it's probably just you talking bonkers again, right? The prof is essentially talking deviations or so from whatever emphasis or so. Penalties. BMEP deductions, carbon deposit demerits, oil aging etc. pp. Things they're mapping all day long for all sorts of relations, components, aspects and facets, cost locations, I don't know...

Well. Have fun turning next to everything for the worse.
 
Pressure and flow are the analogs of current and voltage in an electric circuit, respectively.

A positive-displacement pump is the analog of a variable current source, in which the current output (flow) is varied according to the rpm.

Yes, a current source generates a voltage across the circuit it is connected to (according to its resistance), and a positive-displacement pump generates a pressure according to the flow resistance (path diameters and lengths and oil dynamic viscosity) of the lubrication circuit it is connected to. @CATERHAM demonstrated here a long time ago that the pressure is mainly generated at the engine bearings and the relevant dynamic viscosity is the high-temperature, high-shear (HTHS) viscosity. Therefore, oil pressure depends on HTHS and bearing clearances.

Yes, there is a relief valve on the oil pump, which will limit the pressure and saturate the flow, just like a current source in an electric circuit will saturate (max out) at a certain voltage.

A house water system is more like an analogue of a voltage source connected to a circuit, which generates a constant voltage, analogous to a constant pressure, across the circuit. Therefore, it behaves quite differently than a current source (positive-displacement pump), which generates a constant current (flow) through the circuit. (In the case of the positive-displacement pump, the oil-flow output is more or less proportional to the rpm (when the relief valve is closed); therefore, it's the analogue of a variable current source, in which the electric-current output can be adjusted through some parameter or control.)

The pressure and flow are governed by the Hagen–Poiseuille equation. According to this equation, flow is directly proportional to pressure and inversely proportional to dynamic viscosity. Since the pressure generated by a positive-displacement pump increases with the dynamic viscosity, there is going to be little difference in oil flow when viscosity of the oil is changed. The pressure will change when you change the viscosity of the oil, but the flow will not change much, as going to a higher viscosity is made up by the increasing pressure.

Finally all the spring and ball do in an oil nozzle (such as for piston cooling and lubrication) is that they close the flow when the oil pressure drops below a certain value. This prevents engine damage by preventing further drop in the oil pressure. They aren't designed to regulate the oil pressure and flow otherwise. The nozzles are either open or closed in most scenarios. Toyota says in my Prius Prime new-car features manual:

(a) No. 1 oil nozzle subassemblies, for cooling and lubricating the pistons, are provided in the cylinder block subassembly.

(b) The No. 1 oil nozzle subassemblies contain a check ball to prevent oil from being fed when the oil pressure is low. This prevents the overall oil pressure in the engine from dropping.

I hope this helps clear things.

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You will never see me as you're never ready – I'll never want your straw. Bonkers? Who said bonkers? If the MC prof said bonkers I'll go look up what bonkers means ;-)
But it's probably just you talking bonkers again, right? The prof is essentially talking deviations or so from whatever emphasis or so. Penalties. BMEP deductions, carbon deposit demerits, oil aging etc. pp. Things they're mapping all day long for all sorts of relations, components, aspects and facets, cost locations, I don't know...

Well. Have fun turning next to everything for the worse.

LoL ... I don't think anyone here can "see you", and you seem to make more straw than anyone I've seen by going off in 10 different directions on one subject matter. I thought "bonkers" was kind of an EU terminology?

Wasn't it you who seems to agree with M/C Professor that using a different oil viscosity is going to cause problems with the oil jets? I'd call that turning it into pr at least agreeing what he said as "for the worse". You seem to agree with M/C Professor as being right in his oil jet statement - everything you've said makes it sound like a PD pump fed oiling system is going cause engine oil supply issues if a different viscosity is used ... even though countless owner's manuals (excpet for countries with CAFE driven purposes) specify oil viscosity over the whole available spectrum.

I'm saying he's off base and the main reason why ... the PD oil pump - it's not going to allow a thicker or thinner oil to not flow enough through the oiling system properly and cause a lack of lubrication or cooling. Now if the engine's oiling system operated like your house's water system then there might be some flow issues, mainly when the oil is very cold and thick on first start-up.
 
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The pressure and flow are governed by the Hagen–Poiseuille equation. According to this equation, flow is directly proportional to pressure and inversely proportional to dynamic viscosity. Since the pressure generated by a positive-displacement pump increases with the dynamic viscosity, there is going to be little difference in oil flow when viscosity of the oil is changed. The pressure will change when you change the viscosity of the oil, but the flow will not change much, as going to a higher viscosity is made up by the increasing pressure.
Re: bold part ... exactly why a PD oil pump is used in engines, and what I've been saying (in so many ways) since post #3. It still amazes me how many people don't really understand a PD oiling system when it's been talked about ever since BITOG was created.
 
Mais non. The one popular EU line is a correct german sentence from a very different video and goes like this: Ja ja, aber warum liegt hier überhaupt Stroh rum? Enjoy yourself...
 
To add ... if the oiling system is designed correctly, those larger main oil galleries (#7, #13 and #14 in the diagram above) will increase in pressure as the oil viscosity is increased with engine RPM held constant. Those main galleries will then be supplying oil to each smaller branch coming off of them at the increased pressure, which will ensure the oil flow through all those branches basically remains constant, regardless of oil viscosity.
 
Mais non. The one popular EU line is a correct german sentence from a very different video and goes like this: Ja ja, aber warum liegt hier überhaupt Stroh rum? Enjoy yourself...
Es ist nur Stroh für diejenigen, die nicht wirklich verstehen, was gesagt wird. 😁
 
I'm so glad by now that my hot working oil off relief, albeit of lower visco under lower pressures, doesn't starve piston cooling. A positive displacement pump will always bring the watery thin hot working oil fountains right up into and through the pistons. Look, Monty Python: It's a positive displacement pump!
 
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In privacy he may be a Mazda rotary guy that knows positive displacement distribution showerheads ;-)

Six nozzles – six plungers (revised MOP from MY '09 in the facelifted car).
 
In privacy he may be a Mazda rotary guy that knows positive displacement distribution showerheads ;-)

Six nozzles – six plungers (revised MOP from MY '09 in the facelifted car).
Plungers ? That’s what actual PD pumps have !
 
"Actual" as in 50% more positive?
Well, it should be possible to copy that, scale it and just join the six outlets on our behalf.
 
Any other about cold starts or bearing temps e.g. could have developed the same. PD needs to be spelled from time to time like CAFE, MOFT and A40 about all three axes :-)

 
Lots of "if the system is designed perfectly" insinuations in this thread.
That's because if that's not automatically assumed (which it always isn't by everyone), then someone is going to do down the rabbit hole as some kind of strawman justification on why a PD oil pump doesn't work the way it does. An example where an oiling system might not be designed correctly is if the large secondary oil galleries (#7, #13 and #14 in the diagram) where improperly sized which caused them to improperly feed all the smaller galleries flowing off of them as the oil flow volume increases, or if the main galleries feeding those secondary main galleries was grossly undersized. It is possible to have a bad oiling system design that would impact the PD pump's performance (ie, putting it into pressure relief way before is should).
 
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That's because if that's not automatically assumed (which it always isn't by everyone), then someone is going to do down the rabbit hole as some kind of strawman justification on why a PD oil pump doesn't work the way it does. An example where an oiling system might not be designed correctly is if the large main oil galleries (#7, #13 and #14 in the diagram) where improperly sized which caused them to improperly feed all the smaller galleries flowing off of them as the oil flow volume increases, or if the main galleries feeding those secondary main galleries was grossly undersized. It is possible to have a bad oiling system design that would impact the PD pump's performance (ie, putting it into pressure relief way before is should).
Reminds me a bit of the MRV caveats. I recall that one particular engine (the AMC 4.0L) was particularly sensitive to pumping viscosity due to the pump and pick-up design and that this was accommodated for in earlier versions of J300. The standard was later revised to 60,000cP once that engine became obsolete. IIRC, it would experience a fail to pump at ~45,000cP? Going from memory here.
 
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