Motor Oil University by AE Haas

[RedCorvette]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: RedCorvette

If you know "were" it is, why didn't you post the link for the others you were so concerned about instead of asking someone else to do it?

LOL


Thin ice ...

I've notified the moderators about your threats here and in your PM.

 

[Shannow]

Surely the thing that makes cold oil effective on sliding metal to metal surfaces in the valvetrain would have similar effects on sliding surfaces in the bores....and it does.

And that's exactly what Castrol's UMA esters are supposed to do.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
I've notified the moderators about your threats here and in your PM.


The moderators (and hopefully Helen) know the truth about you now. You think asking you to not be rude because it could lead to a vacation is a threat? I call it truth and reality - you should know all about it from what happened last time.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Tegger

You'd better call your Honda dealership and make sure your engine will handle 0W-20. Not all Honda engines that are rated for 5W-20 can use 0W-20 without damage. I believe the '08 non-Hybrid Civic cannot use 0W-20 without damage.


Although I know what you are referring to, I have yet to read the technician explanation of why 0w-20 will cause damage in any 5w-20 application.

Not to go OT, but I would like more information on the Honda engines that 'can be damaged' by using 0w-20 in place of 5w20? I have 5qt's of Quaker State Ultimate Durability 0w20SM from Big Lots that I'm planning on running it in a 3.0L Accord. Based on reading here including this recent thread I'm under the impression that engines that spec 5w20 can safely use 0w20? Perhaps Caterham or others can clarify or elaborate on this.

 

[RedCorvette]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Tegger

You'd better call your Honda dealership and make sure your engine will handle 0W-20. Not all Honda engines that are rated for 5W-20 can use 0W-20 without damage. I believe the '08 non-Hybrid Civic cannot use 0W-20 without damage.


Although I know what you are referring to, I have yet to read the technician explanation of why 0w-20 will cause damage in any 5w-20 application.

Not to go OT, but I would like more information on the Honda engines that 'can be damaged' by using 0w-20 in place of 5w20? I have 5qt's of Quaker State Ultimate Durability 0w20SM from Big Lots that I'm planning on running it in a 3.0L Accord. Based on reading here including this recent thread I'm under the impression that engines that spec 5w20 can safely use 0w20? Perhaps Caterham or others can clarify or elaborate on this.


Did you pick up that 0w20 recently and was it a good price? I can't find anything at a good price near me.

 

[RedCorvette]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
I've notified the moderators about your threats here and in your PM.


The moderators (and hopefully Helen) know the truth about you now. You think asking you to not be rude because it could lead to a vacation is a threat? I call it truth and reality - you should know all about it from what happened last time.


I think you have me confused with somebody else. I've put you on ignore (advised to me by another member - thank you), as I don't need these threats here or in PM's. Suggesting you have the power to send me on vacation is threatening. You're an established member and I'm new. I have no idea what the board politics are like. When you talk as if you are associated with the moderators and refer to them by name, it strongly suggests you have influence and clearly that was your point.

Goodbye

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
I've notified the moderators about your threats here and in your PM.


The moderators (and hopefully Helen) know the truth about you now. You think asking you to not be rude because it could lead to a vacation is a threat? I call it truth and reality - you should know all about it from what happened last time.


I think you have me confused with somebody else. I've put you on ignore (advised to me by another member - thank you), as I don't need these threats here or in PM's. Suggesting you have the power to send me on vacation is threatening. You're an established member and I'm new. I have no idea what the board politics are like. When you talk as if you are associated with the moderators and refer to them by name, it strongly suggests you have influence and clearly that was your point.

Goodbye


The Mods got my messages on this issue, and can verify the concern.

 

[kender]

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Although I know what you are referring to, I have yet to read the technician explanation of why 0w-20 will cause damage in any 5w-20 application.

I don't know the technical reasons either. But Toyota has a similar warning about not using 5W-20 and/or 0W-20 in engines not designed for it. Toyota put their information into a TSB (EG018-06), which I have.

After the list of engines which can use 5W-20 OR 0W-20, and the list of engines that can use 5W-20 but NOT 0W-20, Toyota gives this warning:
Quote:
DO NOT use these oils in engines other than those listed above. These low–viscosity
oils cannot maintain lubrication effectiveness in engines with older designs and could
result in smoke emissions from the tailpipe and/or unusual engine noise.

So it's unwise to use 0W-20 in an engine that does not specifically call for it without checking with the automaker or one of their dealers.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
I would like more information on the Honda engines that 'can be damaged' by using 0w-20 in place of 5w20?

You need to do what I suggested earlier, and have your dealer's Service Writer dig up the "job aid" that Honda produced to help dealers know which engines must not be fed with 0W-20. If the Service Writer has not heard of this document (or whatever form the "job aid" came in), he should phone Tech Line, the dealership's technical connection with Honda.

This "job aid" was first mentioned in the Honda Service News issue of January 2010. Your Service Writer can dig that up too.

 

[RedCorvette]

Very good advice.

 

[blackdiamond]

Originally Posted By: RedCorvette


Will the OLM alter it's recommendations if you put synthetic 0w20 in instead of conventional 5w20? I don't think so, so you'll get the same mileage "allowance" from the OLM.


The OLM won't know what kind of oil I put in it, but if it tells me to change the oil every 3,000 miles I wouldn't spend the money for synthetics, but if it goes closer to 7,500 miles then I'll consider it. It's not about saving money based on the oil, just if the extra cost will last long enough to not get excessive.

 

[blackdiamond]

I'll inquire about the 0w-20 vs. 5w-20, but it really couldn't make an less sense. Does the 0w-20 have such a low viscosity at startup that it can actually cause an issue when it's still a significantly higher viscosity than it is at operating temperatures? 5w-20 goes though the same range as it warms up and simply starts at a higher viscosity point, right?

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: blackdiamond
I'll inquire about the 0w-20 vs. 5w-20, but it really couldn't make an less sense. Does the 0w-20 have such a low viscosity at startup that it can actually cause an issue when it's still a significantly higher viscosity than it is at operating temperatures? 5w-20 goes though the same range as it warms up and simply starts at a higher viscosity point, right?

They may have different HTHS for one.

 

[dparm]

It's the HTHS viscosity (aka operational viscosity) that may be too low on the 0w20.

 

[Sayjac]

Not doubting anyone here per se, I just want more information. Afaik, being able to use 0w20 where 5w20 is spec'd is and has been commonly accepted here, here being the Bitog pcmo board.

I remember the thread where a Hyundai rep(s) said using 0w20 in place of 5w20 would void your warranty. That was quickly summarily panned here with no exception that I recall. The 0w20 vs 5w20 has been much discussed here, I can't remember reading one that said 0w20 cannot be safely used where 5w20 is spec'd. So, this is a first that know of here, and I want to know the science involved as to why this is or might be true with 'some' Honda engines. And, should I now be concerned about running 0w20 in a 3.0L Honda?

It's also ironic to be under this thread starter with Dr. Haas running 0wXX in his Enzo that we all know is spec'd for a much thicker oil. Only reason I mention it though is as comparison of 0w20 vs 5w20 now being referenced.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Not doubting anyone here per se, I just want more information. Afaik, being able to use 0w20 where 5w20 is spec'd is and has been commonly accepted here, here being the Bitog pcmo board.

I remember the thread where a Hyundai rep(s) said using 0w20 in place of 5w20 would void your warranty. That was quickly summarily panned here with no exception that I recall. The 0w20 vs 5w20 has been much discussed here, I can't remember reading one that said 0w20 cannot be safely used where 5w20 is spec'd. So, this is a first that know of here, and I want to know the science involved as to why this is or might be true with 'some' Honda engines. And, should I now be concerned about running 0w20 in a 3.0L Honda?

It's also ironic to be under this thread starter with Dr. Haas running 0wXX in his Enzo that we all know is spec'd for a much thicker oil. Only reason I mention it though is as comparison of 0w20 vs 5w20 now being referenced.


Although I definitely have my doubts about these types of reports, especially in the absence of more information about the situation, it is still something to consider:

Quote:
Be careful with that 0w-20.... it may be too thin. I recently tore down a RSX engine with 30K miles where the owner used 0w-20 and it had premature bearing wear.
__________________
Danny Chan
www.AcuraSpecialists.com
415-864-0112


http://www.mdxers.org/forums/2-general-discussions/15687-engine-oil-mdx-2.html#post207713

 

[Ken2]

0W-20 must be synthetic. 5W-20 can be conventional oil. Both meet exactly the same hot spec for both 100°C minimum and maximum kinematic viscosity and 150°C minimum HTHS vis. Both meet the applicable standard...GF-5 and/or SN.

About AE Haas' stuff...he's a cosmetic plastic surgeon. He's a smart guy, but he isn't a tribologist nor a mechanical engineer. Take what he writes with a big grain of salt.

Remember when come car companies were changing their engine oil recommendation from 5w30 to 5W-20, and they had certain engines that they did not change to 5W-20 for mechanical reasons? I would not try to save a few pennies of fuel consumption or make an assumption that a lighter oil will reduce start up wear. Let the engine maker's engineers make those recommendations.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Ken2
0W-20 must be synthetic. 5W-20 can be conventional oil.

That is not true. You can have conventional/blend 0w-20 oils. 76, Valvoline and Honda all use them. This is why Honda does not mention the requirement of "synthetic" in their owner's manual for 0w-20 equipped vehicles, while Toyota states very explicitly that you must use a "full-synthetic" 0w-20 in their vehicles if you are doing the 10k interval.

 

[Sayjac]

As I said, I mention Dr Haas only as a reference point comparison to 0w20 vs 5w20 now being specifically discussed. Not meant to get into the individual opinions on his qualifications and/or specific oil use etc. That said, I do appreciate his contributions here.

I bought 0w20Quaker State Ultimate Durability Synthetic with the idea of using it in place of 5w20 for one MM oci. I did so based on reading this board, never even considering any issue based on that reading. My impression has been the 0w20 is superior without exception to 5w20. Saving a few pennies on fuel consumption was never a consideration. 0w20 is generally more expensive than 5w20, though I did get a good deal on the Quaker State Ultimate Durability. And, the benefits at start up and in cold temps with 0w20 have long been alluded to and accepted here.

I'm hoping Caterham will weigh in at some point as he frequently posts on the benefits of using 0w20 in place of 5w20.