Motor Magazine's Article on Coolant

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Originally Posted By: 07MKX
I have a '07 Lincoln MKX with a Ford 3.5L all AL. engine and it only has 6000 miles on it today. (yep 3.5 yrs old, 6K miles.) At 5K miles the cooling system was changed from a Gold colour to a Dark Green.

MKX, why would you change the coolant on a car with only 5,000 Miles?

My BMW has had one coolant change in 19 years, and when I changed the thermostat this year and looked in at the aluminium cylinder head the internal water passages were like new.
 
^^^^I don't think that matters. I was told by an automotive engineer that coolant needs to be changed when it gets dirty. The change every two years to prevent corrosion is mostly marketing...


Also, this statement I doubt is true:

"The company actually will phase out engines (such as the 4.6 and 5.4 V8s) rather than attempt to convert them from the yellow dye hybrid OAT (H-OAT) it has been using in most of its domestic products since 2002. "

The cost to devlope and set up tooling for an engine is very high. I don't think they will discontinue and engine so that they can go to a single type of anit-freeze. If that's the case I will be selling my shares in Ford...
 
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I interpreted it somewhat differently. Since Ford will be phasing out the 4.6 and the 5.4 in the near future anyway, it is not worth the effort to convert it to the new coolant.
 
Originally Posted By: George7941
I interpreted it somewhat differently. Since Ford will be phasing out the 4.6 and the 5.4 in the near future anyway, it is not worth the effort to convert it to the new coolant.


IE: leaded to unleaded gasoline.

Mechanicx had a chart for Ford a few posts up.. take a look 4 different coolants and a new one coloured Orange. What a friggen shame there can't be ONE coolant.
 
07MKX,

Well that article said that is Ford's goal - DexCool in everything as it currently is in Ford's European line-up. Obvioulsy the switch will take some time. I have two Fords and one takes old-school green and one takes G-05, it's doesn't bother me at all to stock the two different coolants.
 
07MKX-if it makes you feel any better-the Ford dark green (which AFAIK is actually a Mazda coolant/FL-22) is very similar to the Toyota & Honda coolants, some of the Toyotas (like my wife's Scion xB) are rated for 10 YEARS/150K on the initial fill, and I can report that other than minor evaporation on her (now 5 1/2 year old) cooling system, the coolant looks exactly the same as the day we bought it, no pressurized overflow tank on it.
 
This Motor article on coolant technology is by far the best I have seen. It clearly explains the competing extended life coolant technologies and contains new information about Ford's gradual migration to Dex-Clone that I had not seen before.

I am disappointed in Ford's choice of Dex-Clone. If you read the article carefully, you can tell that the author thinks more highly of Asian P-OAT coolants than Dex-Clone. Vehicles do not have to be specially engineered to ensure the suitability of P-OAT coolants and it provides immediate protection. In contrast, Dex-Clone does not immediately protect against some forms of corrosion, wears down water pumps (unless they are specially hardened), eats some gasket materials (thanks to 2-EHA), and corrodes cast iron blocks if the coolant level drops.

Ford evidently felt it was more advantageous to standardize on the established coolant technology from Ford Europe than from Mazda. Ford Europe is clearly more important to Ford's future than Mazda. Dex-Clone coolant technology appears to work well in vehicles that are specifically engineered for it. But it makes me a little less enthusiastic about buying future Ford products (e.g., a Grand C-Max to replace my Mazda MPV).
 
I would agree that P-OAT coolant is a more universal formula, but I wouldn't say that it necessarily has more gasket compatibility than Dexcool. Plus the P-OAT is more sensitive about the water used. I think the asian's keeping a lock on their coolant was its undoing. Dexcool was licensed and marketed better. I think Dexcool offers more cavitation protection than it is credited for as long as the coolant remains full. I think Ford's move to Dexcool was the right move with Dexcool being more available and convienent.
 
Alrighty!!!
I guess I have learned a lot here in a few days. Allow me to relay this info. I worked at a Ford plant in their prototype dept. One day a co-worker brings in a water pump from a Jeep (6 cyl. in-line I believe) and the vanes were completely disintegrated (I think it was cast Iron). Gone, Missing. Kaput. I couldn't figure it out, WE couldn't figure it out, All I could think was when I use to run a test on Aircraft oil-coolers and once had to mix some sand in to simulate residue from a casting operation that didn't get completely cleaned out. That was what we attributed it too. That oil cooler lasted just a few minutes at that time, it was Al. sheet plate and fin.

NOW I think I know why the water pump vanes disappeared. It had to do with the type of anti-freeze used and how it was maintained. I and probably most people never see one from years of use. There not a high item replacement. I usually don't replace them myself. We either get rid of a vehicle when a problem rears it's ugly head or buy a new one and let someone else think about it. Also I don't think there were problems like this when I was younger. Although I remember back in the 60-70's wishing I could get rid of rust in my cooling system then. (318 cid's) :)

NOW we're dealing with all aluminum systems.. with mixed in brass and a little steel.. You'll have to excuse me, but the bombardment of all these terms still confuses me. G-05, OAT, gold, green, 2-EHA, red, orange, ah-choo etc. etc. It's just not my expertise and not something I want to get into. I am more concerned about motor oil than coolant.

AS Bullwinkle assured me, I'm now happy with that Dark Green Specialty Coolant and am wondering if I could use it in an '05 Ford Escape Hybrid and even my '00 Explorer, But if I must keep 3 separate bottles, I will. Technology is moving faster than any time before and WILL move even more faster due to mileage standards to come, Seriously from my experience only a FEW real engineer's actually involved with say the cooling system and coolants would know the real truth and you won't see them publish or tell the public, Only by chance if one should be interested in this would they be here to help people. I guess we have to go with what IS published and rely on people who work with multiple engines and tear-downs daily (like Mechanicx) who have more experience than say I as a shade tree person who can only top off and change. Well that's my $.02 and it's free to you.
 
The Escape Hybrid probably uses Motorcraft Gold (G-05). If that's the case, the Explorer can be converted to G-05 if desired, allowing you to only keep 2 coolants around. Just make sure to flush the system thoroughly if/when you switch.
 
I do find it interesting that article said that Hyundai uses P-OAT coolant.Both Kia and Hyundai dealers had told me they use regular American green. The coolant in my Kia is definitely green in color, not blue-green.
 
Is is possible to use G-05 in a auto calling for Dexcool or clone? such as our 04 Isuzu Axiom. If so I will just use G-05 in both... save some headache...

I know I can't use the dexcool or clone in the wifes 04 Navigator... So why not just use G-05 in both?
 
I do not see why not, as long as all of old coolant is flushed out. I could not find block drains on my Axiom. If you find them, please let me know.
 
I have followed this section off and on somewhat for 8 years and I'm still as confused as ever. That's why I drink the KoolAid and overpay for the stuff specified by vehicle manufacturer. At least its free for Subaru with SubaruBucks.
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Originally Posted By: onion
G05 at Walmart? Not around here. The stuff is relatively expensive and difficult to find around here.

Here's some context from the article about the switch-over:
Quote:
One worldwide coolant makes a lot of logistical sense, and even saves Ford some money. But using an OAT coolant does require a lot of specific engineering, as GM learned, so Ford is going slow. The company actually will phase out engines (such as the 4.6 and 5.4 V8s) rather than attempt to convert them from the yellow dye hybrid OAT (H-OAT) it has been using in most of its domestic products since 2002.

This go-slow approach should tell you that, beyond any doubt, you shouldn’t use an OAT coolant in any Ford product for which it was not specifically engineered. That’s not our statement (although we believe it); it’s from Ford, and for good reasons. Also, don’t use it where it may eventually go—for example, in the 3.5/3.7 V6s.



I've been one of the more prolific and vehement Dex-haters around here for some time. But as ya'll may recall from a thread that I posted a while back, I've toned down the fan-boy attitude in light of new information that I was not aware of. It's my opinion these days that in a properly designed and maintained cooling system, Dexcool can work very well.

The problem with Dexcool is that it can fail catastrophically if the system is poorly designed and/or neglected. As such, there are still plenty of vehicles out there (including GM's) that I would absolutely NOT use Dexcool/dexclone in: basically I would not put dexcool or a dex-clone in any vehicle that does not specify Dexcool, nor in any GM with plastic intake manifold gaskets and/or non-pressurized overflow tanks. In those poorly designed GM systems, I would strongly recommend the use of conventional green, G05, or the like. But in a GM system with a pressurized coolant reservoir and without the plastic intake gaskets- I see nothing wrong with using Dexcool. Just check the level regularly and change it well before the 5 year/100k mile expiration date.

..your opinion of "Not useing dexcool in every GM car" seems to be shared also by BASF...they do Not recommend there dexclone (G34)for any chevy, opel, or saab older then 2001
 
The weird thing is that in a properly designed engine & cooling system-Dexcool CAN be the best thing to run-IF it is changed regularly & maintained. Unfortunately, GM and their accounting department decided to "cheap-out" on LIM gaskets, radiator caps, & overflow tanks-no wonder GM went bankrupt!
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
The Escape Hybrid probably uses Motorcraft Gold (G-05).....


Yes, -but- the battery pack/electrical system coolant is Ford Specialty Orange, which is Dexcool. Makes perfect sense, no?!
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