MotoMaster European Formula 0W40

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Lab testing shows how an oil performs compared to standards. Certification, like licensing, are part lab test results, part money exchange. It boils down to if you believe the performance claims of the company, if they and their additive suppliers have done their due diligence with testing. Lubricant manufacturers are liable for damage caused by their products if used consistent with labeling.


Well sure but like the oil filters that tear, I'm probably not going to see a failure using an uncertified oil unless it's really bad. I'll grant you that. Even if it is somewhat inferior to a certified oil, how many users wring every last mile out of an extended OCI anyway?

On the other hand why should I do that given the easy availability of relatively inexpensive oils that do carry a standard? At least Amsoil used to be able to make the claim (maybe unspoken) that their oil was somehow better, and even though it didn't carry a spec it was a "better" oil than their competitors. In this case though with the MotoMaster oil I don't think the claim is that it's better. I think it is just saying that in some way it is "suitable" whatever that means exactly.

There is a part of me that chafes at that statement on the container however, and it is related to the misunderstanding that everyone in this thread made about the original post. Everyone saw the pictures and made comments about the oil carrying standards which it did not. On some level that bothers me.

 

[wemay]

If an oil doesn't say "meets or exceeds..." it just doesn't. "Suitable" is not the same thing. Do i think this will be a problem? Absolutely not. But my opinion is just that, a suitable opinion.

 

[Scum_Frog]

Interesting, very interesting.

I would use this in my '07 Jetta and sleep well at night.

 

[dowzer]

I requested documentation from Canadian Tire, here is the MSDS they sent me. This oil is made by Citgo, but the documentation doesn't have much useful info.

https://msdsmanagement.msdsonline.com/9f...B1000000_APP000

Flash point Open cup: 228°C (442.4°F) [Cleveland.]
Relative density: 0.8472
Viscosity Kinematic (40°C (104°F)): 0.76 cm2/s (76 cSt)

 

[Garak]

For what it's worth, the bottle does claim the MB approval. Of course, with no real data sheet, we still don't know much other than what's on the label.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Garak
For what it's worth, the bottle does claim the MB approval. Of course, with no real data sheet, we still don't know much other than what's on the label.


It does? Where am I not seeing that?

 

[Garak]

It was just on the back of bottle, and now that I look very carefully, it wasn't the 0w-40, as we can see on the picture in the thread, and which is the subject of this thread. I had thought I had checked a 5w-40 example at Canadian Tire, but then later guessed I was mistaken when I checked back to this thread and saw 0w-40, and then I see different wording on the back of the bottle here than I saw in the store. Canadian Tire does, indeed, also have a 5w-40 European formula. So, it would seem I picked up the wrong bottle, or at least a different product than was the subject of this thread. And in this case, too, they don't show any pictures of the back or a data sheet.

It would seem, then, that the 5w-40 has at least one approval beyond SN, whereas the 0w-40 is simply "suitable for use." I see they also have a European 5w-30 on the site. Since they show no pictures of the back of the bottle or list anything on the page, I have no idea of this is an A3/B4 or a C3 type, or what it's "suitable for" or approved for.

 

[m4gician]

Bumping this, anyone have a UOA on this oil yes/no?

 

[sir1900]

Originally Posted By: dowzer
I requested documentation from Canadian Tire, here is the MSDS they sent me. This oil is made by Citgo, but the documentation doesn't have much useful info.

https://msdsmanagement.msdsonline.com/9f...B1000000_APP000

Flash point Open cup: 228°C (442.4°F) [Cleveland.]
Relative density: 0.8472
Viscosity Kinematic (40°C (104°F)): 0.76 cm2/s (76 cSt)


CITGO? That would've been the last place I expected this stuff to come from.

Looks like I'll be returning the two jugs I picked up from CT.

I can't believe I almost put some of Comrade Maduro's special mix into my precious Q50.

 

[Garak]

If it were me, I'd do the Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 or Rotella Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, which are both SN with the elevated HTHS, and no weird country of origin thing with Canadian Tire.

 

[Tech819]

I emailed Canadian Tire.

Does Formula 1 Synthetic Euro Oil 0w40 Carry the VW 502.00 Approval? not Suitable for. But approved?

Canadian Tire-Yes this oil does have VW 502.00 approval.

 

[Tech819]

Also found this on Citgo website scroll down and it lists the OEM approvals and what is still pending

http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/C10223.pdf

 

[kschachn]

I think it is unfortunate (and a bit suspicious) that they don't claim that on the container. Everyone is supposed to email the company to ask, and then believe that over what they print on the label? Odd.

Originally Posted By: Tech819
I emailed Canadian Tire.

Does Formula 1 Synthetic Euro Oil 0w40 Carry the VW 502.00 Approval? not Suitable for. But approved?

Canadian Tire-Yes this oil does have VW 502.00 approval.

 

[Tech819]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I think it is unfortunate (and a bit suspicious) that they don't claim that on the container. Everyone is supposed to email the company to ask, and then believe that over what they print on the label? Odd.

Originally Posted By: Tech819
I emailed Canadian Tire.

Does Formula 1 Synthetic Euro Oil 0w40 Carry the VW 502.00 Approval? not Suitable for. But approved?

Canadian Tire-Yes this oil does have VW 502.00 approval.



The only thing that I can think of is that when it went into production it was still pending status which is why the used "suitable for" maybe the next batch will be labeled correctly.

 

[Tech819]

Also Motomaster F1 5w40 is made by Wakefield.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motoma...88720p.html#srp

https://msdsmanagement.msdsonline.com/9f...ualSearch=false

Formula 1 Synthetic Euro Oil

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/formula-1-synthetic-euro-oil-5-l-jug-0288722p.html#srp

This is made by Citgo

https://msdsmanagement.msdsonline.com/9f...ualSearch=false

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Tech819
The only thing that I can think of is that when it went into production it was still pending status which is why the used "suitable for" maybe the next batch will be labeled correctly.


Could be. It's not as if the information is easy to find anywhere else though, it's practically invisible on their website and there are no specifications listed nor is there a PDS. So you're kind of stuck with what's on the label.

And about who makes an oil, how can you garner approvals and specs from who manufactures it? A lot of manufacturers make a lot of oils for a lot of people, that doesn't mean that the specifications for all of them are the same, right? Doesn't Canadian Tire have to provide that information for their labeled products regardless of who the manufacturer is? I mean it's their product with their name on it, how are people supposed to divine specs from an MSDS? You can't.

I dunno, that all seems poorly marketed to me which is surprising given the size of CT.

 

[Tech819]

You might be right. There is no way to know with the information on the Msds alone.

 

[Garak]

We still don't know. Canadian Tire needs to have a current data sheet posted, and not an MSDS. And, they have to ensure their labelling is accurate. A customer service representative's assertion is not equivalent to formal approval. The label contradicts the CSM, so which do we believe? Is CT willing to put those words into writing, or not?

There is a reason to be cautious about house brand oils, particularly when it's an oil where most applications rely on a bunch of formal approvals. For an ordinary SN/GF-5 oil, fine, or an ordinary CJ-4. But Canadian Tire has, as mentioned in this thread alone, oils from Shell, Wakefield, and Citgo labelled as their own. What if Shell gives CT a better price to come up with the 0w-40, but doesn't bother getting approvals, assuming the current one actually is approved in the first place?

Also, just because a certain Citgo oil is getting approved doesn't mean that's what's coming in the CT bottle. As we've seen with the M1 0w-40 fiasco, we already know a company can make one certified oil and another with one certification missing, depending upon the target market. There's a perfectly acceptable 0w-40 A3/B4 a few feet away, that's on sale in the 5 litre jug right now, from Wakefield, and we know what formal approvals it actually has, and it has the Castrol label on it.

 

[Tech819]

I agree with you as you can see that the Jetta in my Signature is using Castrol. The only MM that I saw that says 502.00 approval is the formula 1 5w40

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Tech819
I agree with you as you can see that the Jetta in my Signature is using Castrol. The only MM that I saw that says 502.00 approval is the formula 1 5w40

The label says that? Their website says only SN.