Most expensive Oil Component

[MolaKule]

On a per ounce basis (of original purchase price), what fully formulated oil component do you think might be the most costly?

I will give you a hint: It is very concentrated so you don't need to add much to the formulated oil. So in terms of the overall package, it doesn't really cost that much.

 

[bigpaulo]

I'm gonna guess... dye/colorant?

 

[labman]

I was going to say hype until I saw the part about not taking much. Otherwise I would guess one of the metal based additives, perhaps molly.

 

[Titanium_Alloy]

I would have to guess that it is an additive. Most likely a recent development which is still not used in many oils. Probably boron compounds like boron phenolates.

 

[MolaKule]

Well, BigPaulo nailed it.

Notice I said component, not additive. Since it is a "non-functional" additive, we have to call it a component.

On a per ounce basis, dyes cost about $0.85/ounce or about $0.03 per mL.

However, the dye is so concentrated that barely one drop of dye will color a quart of oil, so overall costs for this component are actually low.

Now in terms of additives, the mutlifunctional phosphorilated borons, used for AW and antioxidants and friction modification, probably come in second while Moly dithiocarbamtes come in third. Next would be the dispersants and detergents. Coming in fifth is probably Viscosity Index Improvers.

In motor oils, the Detergent/Dispersant package has the highest concentration of all additives and on a fully formulated cost basis, these additives are the most costly components on a per quart basis.

[ June 15, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[Steve S]

MolaKule, a question, does the dertegent in the oil clean the insides of the motor or keep the crud in the oil in suspension?

 

[MolaKule]

The class of additives called, stabilizers and deposit control agents are the anti-oxidants, dispersants, and detergents.

Detergents neutralize oxidation-derived acids as well as suspend polar oxidation products in the oil by their polar nature of encapsulating (surrounding) oxidation products. Detergents control rust, corrosion, and resinous (sludge) buildup. Detergents are "basic" (the other end of the base-acid scale) and provide the basicity or tbn to fight acid buildup.

Dispersants suspend sludge precursors (chemicals which lead to the formation of sludge), prevent aggregation (clumping) of sludge particles, and prevent sludge from adhereing to the surfaces of engines.

It is the "soap" component of BOTH dispersants and detergents that attempt to keep the engine clean.

Another polar agent are the esters. In full synthetic motor oils of PAO/ester formulation, the ester component also routes sludge particles.

Special esters such as found in Auto-RX, also are polar and actually soften sludge so it can be placed into suspension and filtered out.

Hope that helps.

 

[Steve S]

Thanks MolaKule

 

[Titanium_Alloy]

MoleKule,

What's the natural color of oil when it comes out of refinery? Is the color different for group I/II/III/IV/V? I always thought that amber is the natural color of oil. Slight tints of amber - darker or brighter I thought was only dependent on refining process/quality and type of functional additives being used in particular oil. Surely enough green/red/purple is mostly due to dye. What about Redline? Do their oils have reddish color due to excessive amounts of molybdenum or is it just a dye?

Regards,

 

[MolaKule]

Titanium,

Most oils, when just out of the processing units (including synthetics) are clear white.


http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002301

quote:

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Most oils are dyed "bronze" which we call Amber, because oils are expected (by most of the general public) to look bold and amber.

Redline uses red and orange dyes to differentiate its products, GC and Schaeffer's use blue/green, and of course, Royal Purple uses a specialized red/blue dye combination.

Most additives, right after reaction and processing, are clear. Bronze and/or red dyes are added to differentiate the additives. Sometimes the metals in certain additives, such as MoDTC and calcium and magnesium sulfonates, tend to darken the additive, so the above dyes are added to mask the darkening.

ATF's and most PS fluids are dyed red to detect leaks.

AC compressor fluids are dyed with a fluorescent dye so a blacklight source can be used detect leaks as well.

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[Titanium_Alloy]

MoleKule, thank you for explanation.

Do you know if there are any functional additives which give oil distinctive color without use of dyes? That might be interesting in terms of cutting cost of production. Although it might have a little impact on cost since you've already mentioned that dyes are used in miniscule amounts.

Regards,

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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Do you know if there are any functional additives which give oil distinctive color without use of dyes? That might be interesting in terms of cutting cost of production. Although it might have a little impact on cost since you've already mentioned that dyes are used in miniscule amounts.

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It depends on the additive supplier. Some supply Dispersives for example, that are clear "water white."

On the other hand, some suppliers supply MoDTC almost clear with a greenish tinge, while others color it with a reddish-brown dye.

The darkest additives (dark-reddish-brown) have to be the detergents, such as the calcium and magnesium sulfonates.

Even if you take all the additive amounts required per quart, and even if the majority of additives are colored, the final quart of oil that started out as as water white will only become slightly amber.

The rest is usually dye.

[ June 18, 2004, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[Doug C]

I was going to say the plastic bottle.

 

[buster]

quote:

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Now in terms of additives, the mutlifunctional phosphorilated borons, used for AW and antioxidants and friction modification, probably come in second while Moly dithiocarbamtes come in third. Next would be the dispersants and detergents. Coming in fifth is probably Viscosity Index Improvers

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Interesting. So Mobil 1 is using the Boron in large amounts and a bit of Moly. Wouldn't you say for $4.00 qt that is a bargain? Some of the competitors aren't using any boron or moly and charge as much or more for their oils. Do you think this is a direct result of having an advantage in producing your own PAOs and additives like XOM vs say a blender like Castrol? It's hard to really say sometimes whether your truly getting your money's worth vs marketing hype and markup from suppliers. I guess the UOA is the only way to tell sometimes.

[ August 18, 2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[MolaKule]

You also have to include the fact that Chevron and EM make their own base oils and additives.

On the whole, I would have to say that $4.00/qt is still a good price, as is $7.00/qt. for a major polyolester oil as well.

 

[buster]

quote:

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On the whole, I would have to say that $4.00/qt is still a good price, as is $7.00/qt. for a major polyolester oil as well.

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I agree.

You get what you pay for in most cases.

 

[Ken2]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:
You also have to include the fact that Chevron and EM make their own base oils and additives.

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And Shell. Infineum is jointly owned by ExxonMobil and Royal Dutch/Shell.


Ken

 

[MolaKule]

Infineum is a large additive company operation. They have their own in-house mechanical testing facility to analyze their additive packages and formulations.

 

[Baveux]

Hey !!!! We have GE & GM locomotives on test with Infineum oil !!!

Whats is so special about that oil ?

 

[wulimaster]

quote:

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Originally posted by Baveux:
Hey !!!! We have GE & GM locomotives on test with Infineum oil !!!

Whats is so special about that oil ?

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Another zinc-free oil designed for locomotive use? Is it a straight 40w that behaves like a 20w40? Where can we see the specs on it?