MoS2 and Infineum Tri-Nuclear Additives

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Have been reading about the tri-nuclear moly additives and have a couple of questions:

http://www.infineum.com/Documents/Crankc...logy%202009.pdf

1. Does Lubro Moly MoS2 clash with the more modern Infineum Tri-Nuclear Molybdenum?

2. Does Lubro Moly's version fully activate at about the same oil temperature range as the Infineum product?

3. What friction modifiers or anti-wear agents perform best during the engine warm-up period and which ones need a lot of heat (i.e. ZDDP)?
 
It's my understanding that mos2 plates under the heat and pressure of the parts it's forced onto the touching parts. Then at start up this plating is sacrificial and gets worn of until the oil is again heated and the process repeats itself.
As far a the tri-nuclear type I believe it's still an organic variety and it works differently.
MOS2 is a solid lubricant and that was part of the arguement the naysayers would use warning against its use,while of course promoting their version of moly free oil.
Amsoil was actually in the anti-moly camp and its only been in the past few years that they began using it in some formulations since basically the market test mules(the consumer) proved over the years that it use wasn't harmful.
There was a point in time where cummins specifically warned against using the solid type moly because it was possible that the moly would be abrasive and turns acidic and might consume their bearings.
Cummins now uses a different alloy in the bearings that mos2 doesn't react with from what I've read over the recent years.
Great topic 147. I look forward to learning more about how the organic and tri-nuclear types work in practice.
As far as clash is concerned I assume it doesn't,or I'm sure there would be warnings however they may compete for the same space and in effect render one of them ineffective.
And I can't help you on the temp question.
Awesome questions. I'll be following this one all day
 
Excellent questions. I do know that the benefit of titanium is it activates at lower temperatures than moly.
 
So the tri-nuclear moly works different than the solid MoS2 that takes plenty of heat to activate. Does this mean that the organic tri-nuclear moly is active (at lower temps than MoS2) when the engine is warming up?

My eyes light up a little bit when I see oils with higher levels of boron or titanium which we know helps immensely before the engine reaches normal operating temperature.
 
Quote:
There was a point in time where cummins specifically warned against using the solid type moly because it was possible that the moly would be abrasive and turns acidic and might consume their bearings.


Not really.

Cummins had run some tests on various moly compounds.

What they advised against was the Molybdenum DiThiophosphate compound, but the Molybdenum Dithiocarbamate (MoDTC) was just fine.
 
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Quote:
2. Does Lubro Moly's version fully activate at about the same oil temperature range as the Infineum product?


Since we don't know the form of moly they are using no one can make an educated comment.

Quote:
3. What friction modifiers or anti-wear agents perform best during the engine warm-up period and which ones need a lot of heat (i.e. ZDDP)?


ZDDP and MoDTC activate anywhere from about 90C on up.


Calcium, sodium, potassium, Boron and titantium compounds act as low temp AW acomponents.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule

ZDDP and MoDTC activate anywhere from about 90C on up.


This makes sense, as I have found that the Lubro Moly MoS2 really, really smoothes the engine out when fully warmed up at operating temperature, which for my vehicles is in the 88*C. to 95*C. range.

Engine is noticeable quieter too when fully warmed up.
 
Which brings about the question of how Lubro Moly might enhance the film-strength of an oil due to lower friction between two moving parts:

Any ideas?

In other words, can extra moly enable a thinner more efficient oil to perform in a similar manner as a slightly heavier oil (i.e. comparable to upgrading / enhancing HT/HS properties)?
 
I tell you what sticks out is that the more Moly in PPM you have the friction goes down early in engine temp. As the temps heat up they even out, but still are better then the sample with no moly. Specifically looking at the sample 75PPM versus 200ppm. Since most wear is associated with startup and cold engines, I would definitely be looking for an oil with more Moly in it then the average. The sample with no Moly actually goes up in friction with temp and keeps going up. It takes longer for the lower PPM Moly to reduce friction compared to the higher 200ppm Moly, so no brainer there.
 
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain

In other words, can extra moly enable a thinner more efficient oil to perform in a similar manner as a slightly heavier oil (i.e. comparable to upgrading / enhancing HT/HS properties)?

Improving boundary or mixed lubrication is a good thing but I wouldn't be deliberately sacrificing hydrodynamic lubrication to do so.
Simply optimizing your operational viscosity so that you're not running an oil any heavier than necessary while still maintaining a hydrodynamic safety margin is the way to go.
Running the highest VI oil possible to minimize excess viscosity during warm-up will help a lot in that endeavour.
 
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