E-mailed cummins and asked if it was ok to use oil that contained moly(penz or bobsoil) in my b5.9 engine(dodge ram) They said "Moly can be aggressive to the copper in bushings/bearings". Looks like i will still use the proven, reliable, Rotella T. Funny though they did put in a plug for Valvoline premium blue. Well i thought moly was the way to go but looks like i will have to stick to no moly oil. HMMM wonder what navistar and isuzu say about moly.
Moly is a no no in cummins engines
- Thread starter Danzig
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This comes up about every 2-3 months. Just for starters, Valvoline Premium Blue CI contains 88PPM of Moly, so in that case it is a no,no. This VOA is posted in that section, go back on page 2, over 100 days.
Ford makes no distinction, only what weight to use for what temps.
The Moly that is in question is the powdered moly, not the type contained in Schaeffer's, Pennzoil, Valvoline, etc.
[ July 08, 2003, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
Ford makes no distinction, only what weight to use for what temps.
The Moly that is in question is the powdered moly, not the type contained in Schaeffer's, Pennzoil, Valvoline, etc.
[ July 08, 2003, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
Valvoline Premium Blue is what's in the crankcase when they ship 'em from the factory, so it's a no wonder why it's touted by them.
Rotella T? Not in my ISB. I certainly don't miss the smell. Isssh, what do they put in that stuff?
Rotella T? Not in my ISB. I certainly don't miss the smell. Isssh, what do they put in that stuff?
As noted, the Valvoline Diesel oils contain moly, so if they are shipping from the factory with the Premium Blue, they are contridicting their own advice.
Navistar doesn't say one way or another.
Navistar doesn't say one way or another.
Danzig,
I want to clear the air on this issue...I'm not going to say that all oils with moly can be used with cummins engines as that isn't my job nor am I able to prove to you that their statement isn't true in general BUT... I'm going to provide you proof that their statement about the moly in SCHAEFFERS oils is EXEMPT from that statement as it DOESN'T hold true in this case. Download this pdf file and you'll see for yourself that schaeffers oils with moly is able to be used in any cummins engines.
Link Removed
I will leave this link on only for a short time and will be removing it.
[ July 12, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
Sure is hard to shut down a false rumor!
Isn't it the case that moly phosphate compounds were suspected of causing copper corrosion? The moly carbamate compounds used in Schaeffer and other oils never caused a problem and your link shows their clean bill-of-health.
Ken
Isn't it the case that moly phosphate compounds were suspected of causing copper corrosion? The moly carbamate compounds used in Schaeffer and other oils never caused a problem and your link shows their clean bill-of-health.
Ken
"Cummins ... said 'Moly can be aggressive to the copper in bushings/bearings.' "
And some wonder why people often second guess the manufacturers' recommendations.
Danzig, please e-mail these jokers back and tell them that the oil they recommend has a significant amount of moly (~90PPM) in it ... and ask that they respond to your statement. I can't wait to see what they say.
What does incoherent stammering look like typed onto a screen?
--- Bror Jace
And some wonder why people often second guess the manufacturers' recommendations.
Danzig, please e-mail these jokers back and tell them that the oil they recommend has a significant amount of moly (~90PPM) in it ... and ask that they respond to your statement. I can't wait to see what they say.
What does incoherent stammering look like typed onto a screen?
--- Bror Jace
Here is the reply i received when i sent an e-mail that said " Premium blue contains 88ppm of moly"
Subj: Re: RQST00000155580
Date: 7/10/03 8:00:38 AM Central Daylight Time
From: [email protected]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
....should've been more clear - sorry. We assumed you were talking about the Molybdenum Disulphide (MOLY) oil additive products that some were touting, that had gained some popularity a few years back. It is this large concentration of moly that we were ref'ing, not the additive-levels of moly.
Oil additives are not needed if the proper API/SAE lubes are used. The levels of moly in Premium Blue are not a problem. Again, sorry for the confusion.
Powermaster
Subj: Re: RQST00000155580
Date: 7/10/03 8:00:38 AM Central Daylight Time
From: [email protected]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
....should've been more clear - sorry. We assumed you were talking about the Molybdenum Disulphide (MOLY) oil additive products that some were touting, that had gained some popularity a few years back. It is this large concentration of moly that we were ref'ing, not the additive-levels of moly.
Oil additives are not needed if the proper API/SAE lubes are used. The levels of moly in Premium Blue are not a problem. Again, sorry for the confusion.
Powermaster
Danzig, I think you've hit on the biggest problem with most moly questions to cummins. It's normally an after market additive that many do use and like most all manufactures, this will void warr's as no manufcatures allow you to use after market additives.
I'm now going to pull that page off line as I believe now you and many others that didn't know can see that in Schaeffers case with the moly, cummins has accepted our blended oils with no issues about moly in the oil.
Thanks for taking the time to go the extra mile and verify what we were saying with cummins.
Bob
I'm now going to pull that page off line as I believe now you and many others that didn't know can see that in Schaeffers case with the moly, cummins has accepted our blended oils with no issues about moly in the oil.
Thanks for taking the time to go the extra mile and verify what we were saying with cummins.
Bob
going off on a little bit of a tangent here,
I have a couple question regarding the apparent effect of moly on copper as was said:
"Cummins ... said 'Moly can be aggressive to the copper in bushings/bearings.' "
question #1: redline synthetic oils are well known for their high moly content. I know there are different forms of moly (maybe someone can elaborate), but is the type of moly used in redline "harmful to copper"? Common sense tells me no, or it wouldn't be held in such high regard.
question #2: I have a 2002 camaro, with LS1 engine. Oil analysis showed high copper #'s, just like every other LS1 engine. Most people run the $$$ synthetics, odds are those oils probably contain moly, what are the chances the moly in these oils are causing the high copper #'s? Or is the copper in a diesel's bushings/bearings different than in a gas motors'?
I have a couple question regarding the apparent effect of moly on copper as was said:
"Cummins ... said 'Moly can be aggressive to the copper in bushings/bearings.' "
question #1: redline synthetic oils are well known for their high moly content. I know there are different forms of moly (maybe someone can elaborate), but is the type of moly used in redline "harmful to copper"? Common sense tells me no, or it wouldn't be held in such high regard.
question #2: I have a 2002 camaro, with LS1 engine. Oil analysis showed high copper #'s, just like every other LS1 engine. Most people run the $$$ synthetics, odds are those oils probably contain moly, what are the chances the moly in these oils are causing the high copper #'s? Or is the copper in a diesel's bushings/bearings different than in a gas motors'?
Patman
Staff member
The copper is not coming as a result of the moly at all, as I've seen UOAs with LS1s running oils with no moly in it and the high copper level is still there.
I thought valvoline premium blue was a synthetic...??? Does anyone have firm info on what oil cummmins ship from the factory with?
Valvoline sells four blue diesel engine oils; two named GEO for natural gas fueled engines, Valvoline Premium Blue Engine Oil 15W-40 made from Group II base oil, and Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5w-40 made from synthetic base oil (Group III?..."DISTILLATES, PETROLEUM, HYDROTREATED HEAVY P CAS #64742-54-7").
Ken
[ August 24, 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]
Ahh I was mistaking it for the extreme...thanks
MolaKule
Staff member
I know of no oil company that is not running a metal deactivator add in their oil.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000029
[ August 26, 2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000029
[ August 26, 2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
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