Model 3 test drive March 25

[UncleDave]

Auto manufacturing expert Sandy Munro said the Tesla Model Y battery pack has "zero repairability." Tesla-

• EV batteries can be hard to repair after accidents, so many often get scrapped.
• One expert said Tesla is especially at risk.
• Its Model Y battery pack goes "straight to the grinder" after an accident, he said.

Tesla's approach has been a structural battery pack, which has largely been hailed as revolutionary. It means the pack, chock-full of large 4680 cells, is part of the vehicle's body. While that has helped Tesla cut production costs, there can be more risk to consumers and insurers, as it cannot be removed or replaced easily, per Reuters.
This doesn't sound like he's very impressed. It sounds like more electronic waste and higher insurance premiums.

He also says it's the best designed battery pack, and EV.

Sandy Munroe is one of Elons biggest fans.

" Dont bet against Elon Musk"

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Auto manufacturing expert Sandy Munro said the Tesla Model Y battery pack has "zero repairability." Tesla-

• EV batteries can be hard to repair after accidents, so many often get scrapped.
• One expert said Tesla is especially at risk.
• Its Model Y battery pack goes "straight to the grinder" after an accident, he said.

Tesla's approach has been a structural battery pack, which has largely been hailed as revolutionary. It means the pack, chock-full of large 4680 cells, is part of the vehicle's body. While that has helped Tesla cut production costs, there can be more risk to consumers and insurers, as it cannot be removed or replaced easily, per Reuters.
This doesn't sound like he's very impressed. It sounds like more electronic waste and higher insurance premiums.

To be fair at the moment internal battery pack repairs don't seem to be an option taken by any EV maker, although old Leaf packs are easily and often repaired at independent shops. In the future it seems likely that this may become a viable business for most other EVs as well, not unlike transmission rebuild shops today. But certainly it seems that physically damaged packs need to be recycled due to not knowing if internal damage has occurred.

What bugs me about the "structural pack" is that the Betty-Crocker style of assembly requires that the pack housing have a sufficiently-high torsional rigidity to avoid cracking the several large slabs of foam-encased cells and cooling strips. It has to be very rigid anyway so why not integrate it further into the body?

All other EV packs that I'm aware of have a number of modules which contain flat cells inside a rigid housing. As a group, bolted inside the main housing they can tolerate some overall flexing.

 

[97prizm]

The other battery pack in the Freemont manufactured Model Y has the ability to have bad cells replaced.
While Reuter's report addresses multiple manufacturers, one in particular that is quite prevalent is Tesla. We've reported on Tesla's hefty battery replacement costs previously, with the Model 3 costing around $16,000 or more to replace the battery pack, however, the cost to replace the pack is only part of the equation—the other is lack of serviceability.Tesla achieves this rigidity through a method commonly used in electronics assembly called "potting."
The problem is that this manufacturing method also makes servicing the battery next to impossible. Automotive engineer Sandy Munro explains in a battery teardown that the 4680 pack in a new Texas-built Tesla Model Y has virtually "zero repairability" due to the potting foam, meaning that a pack with external damage can't simply have the shell of the pack replaced, nor can an internal cell easily be swapped out.
If you like your muskmobile then fine. But this essentially makes your new Model Y a disposable asset, instead of being repairable. Musk criticizes insurance companies about Tesla customers having high insurance premiums and deductibles, but Tesla has brought it upon themselves. This isn't "green" if a minor accident sends your new vehicle to pull n pay. This isn't my opinion as many keep stating, this is insurance and recycling companies seeing this.

 

[Torrid]

To be fair at the moment internal battery pack repairs don't seem to be an option taken by any EV maker, although old Leaf packs are easily and often repaired at independent shops. In the future it seems likely that this may become a viable business for most other EVs as well, not unlike transmission rebuild shops today. But certainly it seems that physically damaged packs need to be recycled due to not knowing if internal damage has occurred.

What bugs me about the "structural pack" is that the Betty-Crocker style of assembly requires that the pack housing have a sufficiently-high torsional rigidity to avoid cracking the several large slabs of foam-encased cells and cooling strips. It has to be very rigid anyway so why not integrate it further into the body?

All other EV packs that I'm aware of have a number of modules which contain flat cells inside a rigid housing. As a group, bolted inside the main housing they can tolerate some overall flexing.

View attachment 146989

There are shops repairing Tesla packs. Electrified Garage in particular. It will expand. It just takes time for the knowledge to spread. They do have a number of modules and it can be disassembled. It's not an easy process because of how it is sealed, but it can be done. It's not the batteries themselves that are structural, it's the battery frame. The reason it was done was to save space and lower the floor in the car. If all of the structure was done in the unibody it would have made the side sills wider or the floor higher making the vehicle taller. I recommend watching Rich Rebuilds on YouTube who is the owner of Electrified Garage and he's had some videos showing the battery repairs. They even did one for Tyler Hoover of Hoovie's Garage and repaired his older Model S battery pack.

 

[dogememe]

I enjoyed a Tesla M3 AWD for a week. Fully loaded performance blah blah blah.

Absolutely fantastic driving experience. Charging was fairly quick too.

That said, I don’t think I’d buy a Tesla. Other companies make EVs too. Check them out. If I had the money to buy any EV and I was a homeowner that could charge at home I’d buy a Bolt. It’s the best value in EVs IMO.

 

[Cujet]

I’m not yet a fan of the integrated battery cells that are (in essence) potted in place. I do understand they are the most reliable cells available. but we must remember, these vehicles have a lifespan. they should be purchased and operated with this in mind.

 

[Torrid]

I enjoyed a Tesla M3 AWD for a week. Fully loaded performance blah blah blah.

Absolutely fantastic driving experience. Charging was fairly quick too.

That said, I don’t think I’d buy a Tesla. Other companies make EVs too. Check them out. If I had the money to buy any EV and I was a homeowner that could charge at home I’d buy a Bolt. It’s the best value in EVs IMO.

For me it almost seems like there's too many good choices, but as a car guy I just find something else that gets my attention every week. If I was to go electric for both cars I'd probably go Model 3 Performance so I would still have access to the complete supercharger network which is a must for my work. Front runner for me right now is the Audi RS3, but those have become a rarity with stupid markups. Same with the Golf R, which then also has me considering another GTI. Once I hit that level then I just decide to keep my current GTI. I only have 45k miles on it anyway.

I enjoy Tesla as a product, it's just not my daily, it's for my wife. I still drive it a lot though so at least I get to experience more than one thing. That's what keeps me from buying a second one right now.

 

[dogememe]

I’m not yet a fan of the integrated battery cells that are (in essence) potted in place. I do understand they are the most reliable cells available. but we must remember, these vehicles have a lifespan. they should be purchased and operated with this in mind.

Everything has a lifespan though. On a “regular” car the transmission could go bad at 150K miles. How is that different from the battery wearing out at 10 years?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Everything has a lifespan though. On a “regular” car the transmission could go bad at 150K miles. How is that different from the battery wearing out at 10 years?

Well.... EV batteries can be a serious chunk of change. The battery pack in a Tesla is the single most expensive component.
Now, naysayers seem to think they are gonna go south in short order, but so far that is not the case, at least in Teslas.
Here is one study. Now how one charges (supercharger vs home) and other parameters surely make a difference. YRMV.
It is early in the game; more data will follow. IMO, these cars will continue to grow in popularity. We'll see.

 

[RhondaHonda]

Today was the day of the test drive of the Tesla Model 3. We arrived about 20 minutes early, our instructions were to bring our drivers license and arrive 15 minutes early. The facility was new and quite nice. But new buildings generally are nice, hard to get that wrong.
When I made the appointment for the test drive I did not know today was the open house for Franklin Tesla. They were very busy giving people a tour of their facility. However, they did have plenty of showroom employees on hand and we were quickly introduced to someone who walked us through the basic operation of the car and handed us the key card that allows you to start driving.

We were told we could be gone 30 minutes, we were alone while we were driving.

Lisa drove first. She quickly learned the operation of the "one pedal driving experience". Around town stop and go traffic out to an open main highway. She floored the (electric?) pedal and we were suitably impressed with the acceleration. This was the "low powered" Tesla. Not a match for a high performance ICE car, but not meant to be. For family sedan, quite strong instant acceleration. Lisa was annoyed the screen could not be tilted toward her face. She also noted there was no instrument cluster and she was not a fan of the missing cluster.

Next was my turn to drive. I became accustomed to the one pedal operation quickly. I have to say, I can see why some people like that style of driving. The missing instrument panel did not bother me, I had the seat further back than she did and could easily see the screen. The car was pleasant to drive. Not only was the acceleration instant and strong, the steering felt good to me and the seat had plenty of adjustment to get comfortable. I was only in the car 30 minutes and driving about 15 minutes so I can't say how seat would be on a long trip but my initial impression was good.

Interior material and quality seemed "good". Not "Wow this is really upper end" or "This is cheap". Just good functional new car middle ground quality, if that makes sense.

On the exterior, the fit of the left brake light gap was about 1/8'' less than the corresponding right side. Noticeable if you looked for it, but not terrible. I would expect better from a $50,000 car. No glaring problems otherwise.

We talked to the girl about the buying process. For those who might not know, the people at the store are not on commission. They are there to answer questions and assist however they can. So, zero pressure from her. She was very friendly and helpful. She told us they had no model 3's on the lot, they were sold before they got there. She answered our questions and we left to walk around the parking lot before heading home. She would have helped us order the car there at the store if we had asked.

We had talked about the Tesla for the next couple of hours and agreed that it is a very impressive car that we would both enjoy driving. But we have decided to wait for another year. Not because we have any negative feelings for the car, but in order to be in a more prepared financial condition.

I will close by saying again, we were both very impressed with the car as well as the dealership experience. I believe buying a car from Tesla would be quite pleasant, and that has not been my experience with most of my new car purchases in the past.


Pictures:

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Thanks for the review. I’m contemplating a 3 or Y performance for spirited commuting duty. I’m curious if the tax credit gets extended.

 

[FZ1]

Today was the day of the test drive of the Tesla Model 3. We arrived about 20 minutes early, our instructions were to bring our drivers license and arrive 15 minutes early. The facility was new and quite nice. But new buildings generally are nice, hard to get that wrong.
When I made the appointment for the test drive I did not know today was the open house for Franklin Tesla. They were very busy giving people a tour of their facility. However, they did have plenty of showroom employees on hand and we were quickly introduced to someone who walked us through the basic operation of the car and handed us the key card that allows you to start driving.

We were told we could be gone 30 minutes, we were alone while we were driving.

Lisa drove first. She quickly learned the operation of the "one pedal driving experience". Around town stop and go traffic out to an open main highway. She floored the (electric?) pedal and we were suitably impressed with the acceleration. This was the "low powered" Tesla. Not a match for a high performance ICE car, but not meant to be. For family sedan, quite strong instant acceleration. Lisa was annoyed the screen could not be tilted toward her face. She also noted there was no instrument cluster and she was not a fan of the missing cluster.

Next was my turn to drive. I became accustomed to the one pedal operation quickly. I have to say, I can see why some people like that style of driving. The missing instrument panel did not bother me, I had the seat further back than she did and could easily see the screen. The car was pleasant to drive. Not only was the acceleration instant and strong, the steering felt good to me and the seat had plenty of adjustment to get comfortable. I was only in the car 30 minutes and driving about 15 minutes so I can't say how seat would be on a long trip but my initial impression was good.

Interior material and quality seemed "good". Not "Wow this is really upper end" or "This is cheap". Just good functional new car middle ground quality, if that makes sense.

On the exterior, the fit of the left brake light gap was about 1/8'' less than the corresponding right side. Noticeable if you looked for it, but not terrible. I would expect better from a $50,000 car. No glaring problems otherwise.

We talked to the girl about the buying process. For those who might not know, the people at the store are not on commission. They are there to answer questions and assist however they can. So, zero pressure from her. She was very friendly and helpful. She told us they had no model 3's on the lot, they were sold before they got there. She answered our questions and we left to walk around the parking lot before heading home. She would have helped us order the car there at the store if we had asked.

We had talked about the Tesla for the next couple of hours and agreed that it is a very impressive car that we would both enjoy driving. But we have decided to wait for another year. Not because we have any negative feelings for the car, but in order to be in a more prepared financial condition.

I will close by saying again, we were both very impressed with the car as well as the dealership experience. I believe buying a car from Tesla would be quite pleasant, and that has not been my experience with most of my new car purchases in the past.


Pictures:

View attachment 146783


View attachment 146784View attachment 146785View attachment 146786

Good review, Thanks!

 

[Cujet]

Everything has a lifespan though. On a “regular” car the transmission could go bad at 150K miles. How is that different from the battery wearing out at 10 years?

Really, it's not. Let's not kid ourselves, modern vehicles are appliances and likely have similar 15 year lifespans. Although, we can replace or rebuild a transmission, engine or other components.

As a matter of comparison, an old EV with a functional but old battery will have as low a value by percentage as any old vehicle by percentage of purchase price.

My 2009 Lariat with nearly 200K miles is almost 14 years old and it's value is 12% of a new one. Would it be worth $10K worth of engine and transmission, maybe.... but not in the marketplace.

 

[dogememe]

Really, it's not. Let's not kid ourselves, modern vehicles are appliances and likely have similar 15 year lifespans. Although, we can replace or rebuild a transmission, engine or other components.

As a matter of comparison, an old EV with a functional but old battery will have as low a value by percentage as any old vehicle by percentage of purchase price.

My 2009 Lariat with nearly 200K miles is almost 14 years old and it's value is 12% of a new one. Would it be worth $10K worth of engine and transmission, maybe.... but not in the marketplace.

I think the good part about a worn out EV battery is the vehicle is still functional. Like my crappy 2012 Leaf that could only do 20 miles of range on a good day. Still plenty for someone with a short commute who can charge overnight at home or in the daytime at work. Vs if the CVT on a Sentra goes boom you aren’t going anywhere at all. Sure, EVs can have failures that cause it from moving at all, but it’s not guaranteed to happen. While transmission failure on a car is basically guaranteed. Even the first gen Leaf which is a Nissan after all is known to be very reliable (minus premature degradation of the battery) - probably per mile the most reliable Nissan product!

 

[ecotourist]

Body panel fit and finish ( or lack thereof). Paint overspray, missing suspension bolts, missing brake pad(s). Tesla has horrible quality control. These issues are documented all over.

How is the body fit on your Tesla? The body fit on ours is just fine - and I went over it very carefully. No overspray either.

How does a person document the lack of problems on their Tesla.

 

[Ws6]

For me it almost seems like there's too many good choices, but as a car guy I just find something else that gets my attention every week. If I was to go electric for both cars I'd probably go Model 3 Performance so I would still have access to the complete supercharger network which is a must for my work. Front runner for me right now is the Audi RS3, but those have become a rarity with stupid markups. Same with the Golf R, which then also has me considering another GTI. Once I hit that level then I just decide to keep my current GTI. I only have 45k miles on it anyway.

I enjoy Tesla as a product, it's just not my daily, it's for my wife. I still drive it a lot though so at least I get to experience more than one thing. That's what keeps me from buying a second one right now.

I saw a new rs3 the other day. It tried to have a go at me off a light from the top of his 1st, Id guess. Buried the thing rapidly and he cut his shenanigans out by 50mph.

 

[Torrid]

I saw a new rs3 the other day. It tried to have a go at me off a light from the top of his 1st, Id guess. Buried the thing rapidly and he cut his shenanigans out by 50mph.

Considering that both cars have nearly identical performance specs I find it very hard to believe they were taking it seriously.

 

[Ws6]

Considering that both cars have nearly identical performance specs I find it very hard to believe they were taking it seriously.

There is over a 1 second gap in their 5-60 capabilities. Without launch control, that RS3 is dead in the water.

 

[Soft Cars]

Next was my turn to drive. I became accustomed to the one pedal operation quickly. I have to say, I can see why some people like that style of driving.

Are you saying there's no brake pedal?

 

[nthach]

I

For most people, Teslas have a learning curve; these cars are different. Some struggle with this, others not so much.
Most people love the 1 pedal driving; some don't. Personally I'm spoiled.
The biggest difference is the tablet interface. I'm sure that will be explained but it takes getting used to. You have to learn voice commands.
I find the outside mirrors lacking as compared to our other vehicles.
Enjoy your test drive; keep an open mind.
Before you buy, be sure to understand charging. Good luck!

Don't get a speeding ticket...

I’ve only driven a MS, I took to it instantly. But yea, it can be jarring for many.

 

[Torrid]

Are you saying there's no brake pedal?

No, you just don't need to use the brake pedal unless a panic stop is required. Regen will drag the car down at speed and once at a few miles an hour the car will automatically apply the brakes to stop the car. It's a very gentle process. What I find is that you're not fully off of the accelerator pedal until you're almost stopped. I use the accelerator to reduce the regenerative braking affect slightly so as to coast a bit more to stops instead of it feeling so abrupt.