Model 3 Mid Range, Trip Test #2

[alarmguy]

I think a range of 400 miles is not too far in the future for a lot of EV's. At least those that are built and sold as more than an inexpensive urban commuter vehicle. A range of 600 miles is the target but that's probably still a decade away.

Range anxiety is a real thing and planning is essential. There are a lot of Teslas and other EV's on the road now and I'm not seeing regular reports of people "running out of juice" on the side of the road. So EV's owners are figuring out how to own them and not have major issues. But I also see that for a lot of people having an ICE vehicle as well as an EV is a good solution, provided they can afford both. EV's are not in their infancy now but aren't much past baby steps either. But give them time.

Many who have a EV right now are in a micro environment. Im not saying good or bad as far as running out of juice but EVs represent less than 1% of vehicles on the road. Way to soon to say what will happen as they become popular or how popular and their use.

Meaning as a commuter car, people who have homes will charge at home. As a vacation car/pleasure or any long distance driving it will be an unknown for another decade if the charging infrastructure can keep pace with the demand. IF and only if that demand is actually there. We really do not know if the public will buy into battery operated EVs over gasoline for primary vehicle.

IF demand is there in a decade long lines may make people push the limit of how far they feel that they can drive. IN that case it will put a lid on battery operated EVs.

 

[ecotourist]

... there are 250kW chargers but they are not as common.

In Canada the new installations (which means most of them) are all 250kW. We actually avoided the 150kW stations whenever that was possible. Seems there can be advantages to being late to the party.

But our Superchargers are widely spaced (in western Canada they might be 60 miles apart). If for some reason one wasn't working you'd have to limp into the nearest town and charge enough (verrrry slooooowly at some kind of other charger) to get to the next Supercharger. Thus our 15% minimum. For us reliability anxiety (not range anxiety) was the biggest concern. Fortunately our Superchargers are where they're supposed to be and their reliability is excellent.

 

[JeffKeryk]

In Canada the new installations (which means most of them) are all 250kW. We actually avoided the 150kW stations whenever that was possible. Seems there can be advantages to being late to the party.

But our Superchargers are widely spaced (in western Canada they might be 60 miles apart). If for some reason one wasn't working you'd have to limp into the nearest town and charge enough (verrrry slooooowly at some kind of other charger) to get to the next Supercharger. Thus our 15% minimum. For us reliability anxiety (not range anxiety) was the biggest concern. Fortunately our Superchargers are where they're supposed to be and their reliability is excellent.

Your app tells you how many chargers are available. Having said that, we are pretty spoiled in Silicon Valley. I realise I live in a tech bubble.

 

[PandaBear]

Not believable range numbers. However even half that on a real world highway trip would be flat out excellent.

It is a prototype car that looks like a school project, with 0.17cg and top speed capped at 87mph, narrow i3 like tires, thin seat, etc. It is not really a marketable car other than to a few people who must have it. We also don't know how much it will cost.

 

[thastinger]

I did our regular Petaluma trip powered by the sun vs gasoline.

You get to choose the origin point for the electricity you use at the chargers? Or you're saying you charged the car at home and have panels? It would take a lot of panels a long time to charge 60Kw, guess it would only take 2 days for 20 320W solar panels to charge it though.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You get to choose the origin point for the electricity you use at the chargers? Or you're saying you charged the car at home and have panels? It would take a lot of panels a long time to charge 60Kw, guess it would only take 2 days for 20 320W solar panels to charge it though.

I have solar panels on our home is Los Gatos, which is South Bay (San Jose). I rarely charge at Superchargers because I don't drive far enough.

 

[ecotourist]

Your app tells you how many chargers are available. Having said that, we are pretty spoiled in Silicon Valley.

We preferred the 250 kW because they don't share power between adjacent stations. I assumed the 250 would be faster charging than the 150 too but I don't know that to be the case.

Not usually an issue anyway because not many places in western Canada have both.

But in one case the Tesla Nav wanted us to take us off our route to a 150 station when there was a 250 station right on our route in a couple of blocks. Windshield washing equipment was available, there was a good washroom and all 4 charging stations were open too. Makes you wonder why Tesla wanted to take us to the 150 station.

 

[UncleDave]

We preferred the 250 kW because they don't share power between adjacent stations. I assumed the 250 would be faster charging than the 150 too but I don't know that to be the case.

Not usually an issue anyway because not many places in western Canada have both.

But in one case the Tesla Nav wanted us to take us off our route to a 150 station when there was a 250 station right on our route in a couple of blocks. Windshield washing equipment was available, there was a good washroom and all 4 charging stations were open too. Makes you wonder why Tesla wanted to take us to the 150 station.

Acceptance/charge speed closely equates to SOC, so if you are not, or wont be in the zone for charging and heat wise it may make best sense to send you to a 150, because you arent going to take much more than 100 or 120 and just for a tiny bit.

You sitting at a 250 spigot starting at 100 and dwindling to 50 isnt the best use of a 250.

 

[thastinger]

We preferred the 250 kW because they don't share power between adjacent stations. I assumed the 250 would be faster charging than the 150 too but I don't know that to be the case.

Not usually an issue anyway because not many places in western Canada have both.

But in one case the Tesla Nav wanted us to take us off our route to a 150 station when there was a 250 station right on our route in a couple of blocks. Windshield washing equipment was available, there was a good washroom and all 4 charging stations were open too. Makes you wonder why Tesla wanted to take us to the 150 station.

Wish they would rate those chargers in Amps, so people could see that those chargers have 2 to 5 times the power of the main service to their house. 250kw = 1036 amps at 240VAC

 

[UncleDave]

Wish they would rate those chargers in Amps, so people could see that those chargers have 2 to 5 times the power of the main service to their house. 250kw = 1036 amps at 240VAC

Poeple in general have absolutely no clue about electricity, energy or what various things take an need to operate.

A few BEV manufacturers try to translate charging energy to miles per hour and this nets an awful reaction here.

After being in the dog grooming van market it was simply astounding how few people understand energy in any form.

 

[ecotourist]

Wish they would rate those chargers in Amps, so people could see that those chargers have 2 to 5 times the power of the main service to their house. 250kw = 1036 amps at 240VAC

I didn't notice the Amps when charging at a Supercharger. But it would be a logical thing to report. Our home charger charges at 32 Amps (from 240 Volts).

At a Supercharger, our Tesla reports the charging rate in miles/hr (or maybe it's Km/hr) at a truly astonishing rate when the battery is low. That's how you learn that charging near the bottom of the battery (starting from say a 10 or 15% charge) is the way to go. When the battery gets up to 80 or 90% the miles/hr has really slowed down. Which is how you learn to only charge enough to get to the next Supercharger. So I suppose that reporting in miles/hr teaches owners (if they're paying attention) how to best use the charging system. It sure taught us.

 

[AuthorEditor]

The difficulty I would have with driving an EV is that the places I go to frequently and park do not currently have and are unlikely to ever have charging available. We hike a lot and there will never be chargers at trailheads. For example, one place I go regularly is about 225 miles away and there is no place to charge at the end of that trip, so even if I left home fully charged I would have to recharge at least once on the return leg. I don't typically stop during that 225-mile run for anything and it is often done late at night. Even if a charger was available it would mean hanging around in some rest area in the middle of the night wasting time. It's a similar problem if I want to visit my son 265 miles away. I could get there but then have no place to charge in the big city without hanging out in some awful place. I might be able to just make a round-trip to visit my daughter, but it would be a nail-biter and I couldn't do any driving around while there. Yes, these trips would be possible but would take longer. I guess that is our future!

 

[thastinger]

I didn't notice the Amps when charging at a Supercharger. But it would be a logical thing to report. Our home charger charges at 32 Amps (from 240 Volts).

At a Supercharger, our Tesla reports the charging rate in miles/hr (or maybe it's Km/hr) at a truly astonishing rate when the battery is low. That's how you learn that charging near the bottom of the battery (starting from say a 10 or 15% charge) is the way to go. When the battery gets up to 80 or 90% the miles/hr has really slowed down. Which is how you learn to only charge enough to get to the next Supercharger. So I suppose that reporting in miles/hr teaches owners (if they're paying attention) how to best use the charging system. It sure taught us.

The superchargers are DC voltage (480V) so there is some efficiency gain by not having to convert AC to DC onboard your car. 300Amps DC at 480V is deadly stuff, surprised you don't hear of more accidents.

 

[ecotourist]

The difficulty I would have with driving an EV is that the places I go to frequently and park do not currently have and are unlikely to ever have charging available. We hike a lot and there will never be chargers at trailheads. For example, one place I go regularly is about 225 miles away and there is no place to charge at the end of that trip, so even if I left home fully charged I would have to recharge at least once on the return leg. I don't typically stop during that 225-mile run for anything and it is often done late at night. Even if a charger was available it would mean hanging around in some rest area in the middle of the night wasting time. It's a similar problem if I want to visit my son 265 miles away. I could get there but then have no place to charge in the big city without hanging out in some awful place. I might be able to just make a round-trip to visit my daughter, but it would be a nail-biter and I couldn't do any driving around while there. Yes, these trips would be possible but would take longer. I guess that is our future!

What you say is true. EVs don't work for every application, at least not yet. We have an older Honda Accord ICE for just those purposes. But to be honest we hardly ever drive the Honda (and even then mostly because we need a second vehicle some days).

Our Tesla is perfect for local use (meaning anything within 90 miles of home). Having driven an EV for almost 2 years, it would seem quite odd to have to gas up to do local errands. We now start off every morning with a full tank (actually 80% of a full tank) with minimal effort.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Our Tesla is perfect for local use (meaning anything within 90 miles of home). Having driven an EV for almost 2 years, it would seem quite odd to have to gas up to do local errands. We now start off every morning with a full tank (actually 80% of a full tank) with minimal effort.

We like the idea of having one EV and one ICE for when we need it, but our first major hurdle is that our very old house just has 60 amp service and before we could even contemplate putting in a charger we would need about $5-10K in wiring (from the pole to the panel and then within the house) upgrades. Plus, we have no garage, so the cars would be cold soaked all winter long. It sometimes gets down to 20 below zero or so here, and is mostly under freezing from December through February or so. Not ideal for an EV.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I didn't notice the Amps when charging at a Supercharger. But it would be a logical thing to report. Our home charger charges at 32 Amps (from 240 Volts).

At a Supercharger, our Tesla reports the charging rate in miles/hr (or maybe it's Km/hr) at a truly astonishing rate when the battery is low. That's how you learn that charging near the bottom of the battery (starting from say a 10 or 15% charge) is the way to go. When the battery gets up to 80 or 90% the miles/hr has really slowed down. Which is how you learn to only charge enough to get to the next Supercharger. So I suppose that reporting in miles/hr teaches owners (if they're paying attention) how to best use the charging system. It sure taught us.

Remember charging at home uses the on board charger; on a Supercharger the car uses the Supercharger's charger.

A Tesla Supercharger amperage varies from 15 amps to 300 amps depending on the charging level and the type of Tesla car you have. Superfast chargers are the fastest and draw up to 300 amps of current.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The difficulty I would have with driving an EV is that the places I go to frequently and park do not currently have and are unlikely to ever have charging available. We hike a lot and there will never be chargers at trailheads. For example, one place I go regularly is about 225 miles away and there is no place to charge at the end of that trip, so even if I left home fully charged I would have to recharge at least once on the return leg. I don't typically stop during that 225-mile run for anything and it is often done late at night. Even if a charger was available it would mean hanging around in some rest area in the middle of the night wasting time. It's a similar problem if I want to visit my son 265 miles away. I could get there but then have no place to charge in the big city without hanging out in some awful place. I might be able to just make a round-trip to visit my daughter, but it would be a nail-biter and I couldn't do any driving around while there. Yes, these trips would be possible but would take longer. I guess that is our future!

With my car, you could charge for 15 minutes before reaching your destination and once again (half hour) on the way home.
With a Long Range car, you would only have to make one stop between 15 and 30 minutes on the way home.

These cars are different and not for everyone's use case. But you do not need to sit on a supercharger for long periods of time. The goal is to stay off superchargers; just charge to destination when road tripping. Fill up at home where it's cheap and the vehicle is not in use.

 

[PandaBear]

Poeple in general have absolutely no clue about electricity, energy or what various things take an need to operate.

A few BEV manufacturers try to translate charging energy to miles per hour and this nets an awful reaction here.

After being in the dog grooming van market it was simply astounding how few people understand energy in any form.

I think at least half of the US population never took high school physics, so it would be a bit hard to explain what each unit means until most of them are familiar with it with an EV.

This is like explaining to a rural farmers back in the 1800 what home electricity is about.

 

[PandaBear]

The difficulty I would have with driving an EV is that the places I go to frequently and park do not currently have and are unlikely to ever have charging available. We hike a lot and there will never be chargers at trailheads. For example, one place I go regularly is about 225 miles away and there is no place to charge at the end of that trip, so even if I left home fully charged I would have to recharge at least once on the return leg. I don't typically stop during that 225-mile run for anything and it is often done late at night. Even if a charger was available it would mean hanging around in some rest area in the middle of the night wasting time. It's a similar problem if I want to visit my son 265 miles away. I could get there but then have no place to charge in the big city without hanging out in some awful place. I might be able to just make a round-trip to visit my daughter, but it would be a nail-biter and I couldn't do any driving around while there. Yes, these trips would be possible but would take longer. I guess that is our future!

Usually, people buy an EV based on their commute, not hobbies or occasional trips. At the moment most people who bought a Tesla would at least have another gas car in the household, but if you really do the type of driving you do everyday you are not a good candidate for EV.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Usually, people buy an EV based on their commute, not hobbies or occasional trips. At the moment most people who bought a Tesla would at least have another gas car in the household, but if you really do the type of driving you do everyday you are not a good candidate for EV.

Depends... If he had a Long Range he could charge at home for cheap, then charge for 15 minutes ($15 or less) on the way home. That would save a lot of gas costs over time.

450 miles / 30 mpg = 15 gallons. 15 gallons * $3.50 per gallon = $52.50. The numbers, of course, depend on the vehicle and the gas price; this is one example.
No oil changes, tune ups, etc. Brakes last a loooong time.
It all depends...