Model 3 FSD from LA to San Jose; 1 stop in Kettleman for a charge. Look Ma, no hands!

[JeffKeryk]

Some vehicles have a attention monitoring system that alerts the driver if they appear to not be paying attention to the road. Does Tesla have this?

We can cherry pick scenarios back and forth but until there is a completely safe system for autonomous driving it should not be used as such. A driver who is tired should be off the road and sleeping instead of gaming the system by using a orange in the steering wheel.

There is a clear line between driving safety aids and a system that calls itself Autopilot that shows a driver what it can do without any input from the driver thus enticing them to try it.

Tesla has numerous driver attention warnings.
It is my understanding they dealt with the orange peel trick.

Regarding the orange peel trick, Tesla corrected it with a software update. Now you must give the wheel direction movement (which can’t be faked by a stationary object) to satisfy the input requirements. “Pressure” alone is no longer enough.

This is another Tesla strength. They are committed to constant vehicle improvement (as are most manufacturers) and can react to needs quickly via software updates (most other manufacturers cannot).

 

[UncleDave]

You are constantly justifying AP with aid's. You specifically mentioned ABS, collision correction (bcs. why would not unconscious driver be able to steer back vehicle which might not have any mechanical control anymore?)
My work is specific to security threats, among others coming from social media. I do not do it, but some people do. Does that mean it is OK, bcs. I do not do it?
Also, user agreements do not mean anything, It is to prevent you from suing Musk for his wet dream. Simple as that. Can I sue him then if I have to wake up that driver whose vehicle stopped in the lane? Can I then stop in the lane if no parking to get coffee or quickly grab something in the store?
230 does not have anything to do with world being burned. It has a lot to do with frustrations of certain people who grew up still being toddlers.

Im saying AP is built on a foundation of individual aids that add up to an automation rating level.

(bcs. why would not unconscious driver be able to steer back vehicle which might not have any mechanical control anymore?)
I dont understand this question.

You sue the driver that was behind the wheel if they caused an accident regardless of what automation a vehicle may or may not using when the accident occurred.

230 has to do with exactly what I said - what is a publisher vs what is platform. I have no frustration about it, simply observing what is occurring with big tech companies claiming to be one but actually acting like the other.
You are assigning this "toddler & frustration" to my description assuming I'm on the side of a given candidate, or you are on a specific side and preempting the definition. I have no dog in the current fight about 230, I trust no one.

Heres a diagram that shows the individual features that add up to an automation level.

At what level do you feel things should be frozen at ?

 

[edyvw]

Tesla has numerous driver attention warnings.
It is my understanding they dealt with the orange peel trick.

Regarding the orange peel trick, Tesla corrected it with a software update. Now you must give the wheel direction movement (which can’t be faked by a stationary object) to satisfy the input requirements. “Pressure” alone is no longer enough.

This is another Tesla strength. They are committed to constant vehicle improvement (as are most manufacturers) and can react to needs quickly via software updates (most other manufacturers cannot).

So, if you have to actually drive the car, how is that different from radar controlled cruise control?

 

[edyvw]

Im saying AP is built on a foundation of individual aids that add up to an automation rating level.

(bcs. why would not unconscious driver be able to steer back vehicle which might not have any mechanical control anymore?)
I dont understand this question.

You sue the driver that was behind the wheel if they caused an accident regardless of what automation a vehicle may or may not using when the accident occurred.

230 has to do with exactly what I said - what is a publisher vs what is platform. I have no frustration about it, simply observing what is occurring with big tech companies claiming to be one but actually acting like the other.
You are assigning this "toddler & frustration" to my description assuming I'm on the side of a given candidate, or you are on a specific side and preempting the definition. I have no dog in the current fight about 230, I trust no one.

Heres a diagram that shows the individual features that add up to an automation level.

At what level do you feel things should be frozen at ?


View attachment 40621

You obviously do not understand that section 230 protects your input on social media. Should social media have responsibility like regular news agencies? Sure. Removing 230 exposes you here, at BITOG to legal responsibility. That is whole thing around current debate. Sites like BITOG would stop existing if 230 is revoked.
As for collision correction feature you mentioned it as aid's like AP. And as I said, where do you ever give control to that aid unless vehicle is uncontrollable bcs. let's say, you lost wheel hitting pothole? You are trying to equate AP with regular aid's to justify this technology. You are the one that mentioned ABS etc.
As for other features you listed, yeah self parking is automated, lane keep assistance. I drove several vehicles with those nannies, and I turn them off immediately, except blind spot monitoring. That thing is IMO very useful.
Self parking? Anyone who needs that to park should not have DL.

 

[UncleDave]

Bitog would be just fine. Bitogs non political stance keeps it safe does it being a forum.
By not allowing either side they aren't discriminating against one sides or another free speech and stay neutral.
Bitog is also not "social" in that it does not "push or broadcast media or content" one must go get it.
230 specifically excludes political dialog from censorable material on a platform.
Twitter and facebook would lose 230 protection because they censor political dialog, they in effect chose who talks, and what user see - just like news. They are publishers not platforms.

As for collision correction feature you mentioned it as aid's like AP. And as I said, where do you ever give control to that aid unless vehicle is uncontrollable bcs. let's say, you lost wheel hitting pothole?

I think you may be talking about me referencing collision mitigation braking.
If I'm looking in the rear view mirror and the instant I look away the guy in front of me dynamites the brakes - the car becomes better than me at avoiding a rear ending accident.Im not giving control to the car the car is backing me up, and I can over ride CMB by stepping on the gas.
My honda often false engages the CMB system and I over ride it often in the city by covering the gas pedal - its too conservative.


On lane keeping.
I have my hand on the wheel 99.999% of any drive.
I allow very brief control to the system quite often by relaxing any wheel pressure, when I look down at a map, the radio, or switch between modes on climate control, the aid allows the car to stay in lane and applies very light correction i dont take my hand off the wheel
My eyes are not looking ahead, or behind me at that moment 1 or 2 seconds.
For that 1-2 seconds my eyes are off the road the car is 100% better than me 99% of that time.There are times when sun on the horizon, or covered sensors may not allow the system to function properly, but its all on me as the driver.
TO that end the lane keeping reduces the input effort I need to place on the wheel to stay in lane, reducing long term fatigue - it isnt driving the car so much as aiding in driving the car for a few seconds while I handle in car tasks that take my attention of the road brief periods of time.

Where I think (I dont want to put words in anyones mouth) you and I both have an issue is when the car is allowed to change lanes, exit the freeway, make autonomous left and right hand turns.This level of autonomy is very tricky and subject to all kinds if, ands, or buts and it doesn't help the matter by calling it " full self driving" when its not.

This isn't all there to be sure but its coming and there are many vendors working on it and as the systems rack up billions of miles they learn fast and improvements come quickly.

 

[UncleDave]

.and just up for fresh debate on the subject

Tesla’s full statement regarding Q4 2020 Accident data is available below.

“In the 4th quarter, we registered one accident for every 3.45 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.05 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.27 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 484,000 miles.*

 

[UncleDave]

Other interesting data

Advanced Driver Assistance Systems - Injury Facts

Advanced Drive Assistance Systems (ADAS) have varying capabilities depending on the manufacturer and are meant to help reduce driver risk.

injuryfacts.nsc.org

 

[JeffKeryk]

So, if you have to actually drive the car, how is that different from radar controlled cruise control?

I believe that's what we are talking about. The car adjusts speed according to objects around it.
It also steers the car, but requires driver input to ensure the driver is not being stupid.
Tesla AP functionality has been improved by updates many times in the 2 years we have had the car.

 

[edyvw]

I believe that's what we are talking about. The car adjusts speed according to objects around it.
It also steers the car, but requires driver input to ensure the driver is not being stupid.
Tesla AP functionality has been improved by updates many times in the 2 years we have had the car.

So, it steers the car but also wants driver to steer the car?
Is that just there so Tesla drivers can say how they have AP to their neighbor?

 

[ZeeOSix]

So, it steers the car but also wants driver to steer the car?

Reminds me of the scene in Christine where he shows how she drives herself.

 

[Job]

AP will be about like tail fins of the fifties, trendy now, gone in the future. Emergency safety features are great though. Still when a car is twenty years old, it needs a brain behind the wheel, not an assortment of aging electronics. IMO.

 

[JeffKeryk]

AP will be about like tail fins of the fifties, trendy now, gone in the future. Emergency safety features are great though. Still when a car is twenty years old, it needs a brain behind the wheel, not an assortment of aging electronics. IMO.

You might want to rethink "Aging electronics". The Tesla software is constantly improved via over the air updates based on real world data.
It only gets better; that's the point.

 

[Snagglefoot]

On highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton.

 

[JeffKeryk]

On highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton.

View attachment 40739

Please post the results of this. If he was asleep at the wheel, I imagine he can be charged with reckless driving.
If he was on AP, I would like to know how he overrode the system.
These cars do not drive themselves; without driver input, they will stop.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Please post the results of this. If he was asleep at the wheel, I imagine he can be charged with reckless driving.
If he was on AP, I would like to know how he overrode the system.
These cars do not drive themselves; without driver input, they will stop.

Interesting. That part was not discussed but apparently the guy was charged with dangerous driving.

‘A legal first’: B.C. man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla | Globalnews.ca

'I don’t know that I’m aware of any other case in Canadian law ever,' said Vancouver criminal lawyer Kyla Lee.

globalnews.ca

 

[PimTac]

Please post the results of this. If he was asleep at the wheel, I imagine he can be charged with reckless driving.
If he was on AP, I would like to know how he overrode the system.
These cars do not drive themselves; without driver input, they will stop.

Hopefully they pull over before they stop?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Hopefully they pull over before they stop?

Yes. That's my understanding.

 

[UncleDave]

Please post the results of this. If he was asleep at the wheel, I imagine he can be charged with reckless driving.
If he was on AP, I would like to know how he overrode the system.
These cars do not drive themselves; without driver input, they will stop.

Yeah it doenst work the way they worded it.

He may be charged for that, and he may have been unfit to drive but it doest work if you are flat asleep.