Overkill come off it. Everyone knows what proper engine maintenance looks like. Good looking engine, but nothing to do with this thread.
Mobil 5000 5w30 5,585 miles UOA
- Thread starter jk_636
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Originally Posted By: jk_636
Overkill come off it. Everyone knows what proper engine maintenance looks like. Good looking engine, but nothing to do with this thread.
I think it is pretty relevant actually
As I said, I've got 100,000 more miles on the Expedition than you have on your truck and it is clean without me adding anything to it. So unless your truck was neglected and has sludge or serious varnish that you feel warrants this dosing of your lubricant, I don't see why you wouldn't just run a quality lubricant at a sane interval
That's the point of showing my results of doing so. Clean engines, despite the lack of additives
No Wizards, just good oil. My preference is Mobil 1 but you'd likely have similar results with a premium SOPUS or BP product.
Anyways, my point isn't to aggravate you, just to get you to take pause and evaluate what you are doing and why. If I've managed to achieve that, then I am done here. Have a good evening!
Overkill come off it. Everyone knows what proper engine maintenance looks like. Good looking engine, but nothing to do with this thread.
I think it is pretty relevant actually
Anyways, my point isn't to aggravate you, just to get you to take pause and evaluate what you are doing and why. If I've managed to achieve that, then I am done here. Have a good evening!
I have to admit, what first got me going on additives was engine problems that DID get solved. First it was MolaKule explaining how he used the main ingredient found in Hyperlube and Lubegard Biotech to cut wear while lowering ZDDP levels. Then, further reading in various tribology articles said those could be used to cut wear at lower activation temperatures than ZDDP, similar to what moly is famous for. Then, trying Hyperlube to stop lifter ticking worked definitively. Success. ... After that, Ceratec was used by someone who had a newer Mazda and they got very low iron levels in a UOA here on bitog. Further reading about Ceratec showed some organizations thought it worked, and Lubromoly is a respected company.
And yes, the oil makers are there to make a profit, so most aren't going to put in more additives than it takes to pass all the certification specs they want. They could do more.
You could say "oil is good enough plain", yet some of us see some possible benefit from additives. There will always be those two camps. I won't call the other camp crazy, although they really are. lol
And yes, the oil makers are there to make a profit, so most aren't going to put in more additives than it takes to pass all the certification specs they want. They could do more.
You could say "oil is good enough plain", yet some of us see some possible benefit from additives. There will always be those two camps. I won't call the other camp crazy, although they really are. lol
Originally Posted By: jk_636
There is no reason for it to be the problem. It is used as a gentle cleaning agent and provides supplemental boron. It isn't thinning out the oil so it should not be leading to a decrease in protection of engine parts.
You mention supplemental boron several times in this thread. Also that MMO is SAE 10 viscosity. Your analysis shows nothing beyond background boron and analysis of MMO confirms it contains none. It is also ~2.7 cSt, about half the viscosity of an SAE 5 oil.
A recent analysis by Molecule: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3442362/1
A Blackstone analysis:
There is no reason for it to be the problem. It is used as a gentle cleaning agent and provides supplemental boron. It isn't thinning out the oil so it should not be leading to a decrease in protection of engine parts.
You mention supplemental boron several times in this thread. Also that MMO is SAE 10 viscosity. Your analysis shows nothing beyond background boron and analysis of MMO confirms it contains none. It is also ~2.7 cSt, about half the viscosity of an SAE 5 oil.
A recent analysis by Molecule: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3442362/1
A Blackstone analysis:
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Originally Posted By: edhackett
You mention supplemental boron several times in this thread. Also that MMO is SAE 10 viscosity. Your analysis shows nothing beyond background boron and analysis of MMO confirms it contains none. It is also ~2.7 cSt, about half the viscosity of an SAE 5 oil.
A VOA of MS5K 5W-20 for comparison:
You mention supplemental boron several times in this thread. Also that MMO is SAE 10 viscosity. Your analysis shows nothing beyond background boron and analysis of MMO confirms it contains none. It is also ~2.7 cSt, about half the viscosity of an SAE 5 oil.
A VOA of MS5K 5W-20 for comparison:
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: jaynissan12
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: jaynissan12
Oil did thin out a bit, I would try a high mileage oil and see how it fares. They tend to start a little thicker (other than max life, they are the same as any fuel efficient oil). Thinning could have caused the higher metals, but only way to know it to do trials and testing, even if this engine was back spec'd to a 20 weight, doesn't mean that is the best weight for the engine, which is basically what the oil thinned to.
Im going to do one more short (3k) run of PYB then move to the HM oils and see how they fare. The hard decision is going to be which HM to use. I have been looking into the semi synthetic pennzoil, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, heck all of them. I have a lot more research ahead of me. I think that 20 weight would probably be fine if it was all highway miles, but mine is now 80%+ city driving. Others have suggested moving to a heavier weight (Xw40) also. I am seriously considering that as well.
Defy, Pennzoil HM, Castrol HM, Valvoline Max Life, Havoline HM would be my personal choices. I think Castrol is the thickest of the bunch. I haven't found a whole lot of user experience UOA's with Mobil 1 HM to have anything to compare to but I may get lashed for this on here but there are many complaints with Mobil 1 and higher iron like you are experiencing so I am not sure Mobil 1 HM would provide the results you want, but then again it could be very different than normal Mobil 1. RP is good as any but expensive and probably comparable to Max Life full synthetic which might be cheaper. I think, again just my opinion, before I would hit the w40's, I would maybe try a HDEO, they are a little thicker in their grade and resist shear, one that comes to mind right away is T5 10w30, Chevron Delo 5w30 and I am sure a few more are out there in the 30 range. I have used 0w40 Castrol not long ago, probably too thick, I noticed a little sluggishness in the engine and lost mpg's (mine is spec'd for 5w30).
I have never considered the HDEOs. Im going to look into how that would work in my application. As for the RP HM, its pricey, but if it is anything like the rest of their stuff it must be good. I have never had bad luck with any RP product, and I use their API SN oil exclusively in the wifes SUV. Lot of good info here. Thanks for the input!
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
I'd only use MMO as a final-500-mile before an oil change "flush" to clean it up a bit.
On the entire question of putting in additives at all, I think we all have to recognize that engine oils could be better if the oil companies wouldn't just quit adding good stuff in there as soon as they pass their specs. They save money often times by using LESS moly, nano-boron, etc. Additives, if carefully chosen by looking at the data available on it, can be excellent. Ceratec, Liquimoly MoS2, Hyperlube, Lubegard Biotech, all can be a good idea to boost oil.
Surprisingly, I must say I completely agree. A lot of people utilize the benefits of additives such as Liquimoly, Riselone, MMO etc. This is why I use MMO, for extra boron and cleaning properties. I leave it in the full OCI though, as my intervals never (with the exception of this sample) run more than 5k miles. I also use a 5 minute motor flush before each oil change (but that is added after taking a small sample from the oil pan for the UOA)
Found this, good price http://www.amazon.com/Delo-271210339-3PK...#productDetails
here is the pds:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=384346&docFormat=PDF
It is SN and Diesel rated which means it has to be more shear stable than a non HDEO oil. Think I might try some of this stuff myself in the future. Notice the viscosity at 100 C is 11.7, most 30w that are SN rated non HDEO are in the 10-10.5 range.
Originally Posted By: jaynissan12
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: jaynissan12
Oil did thin out a bit, I would try a high mileage oil and see how it fares. They tend to start a little thicker (other than max life, they are the same as any fuel efficient oil). Thinning could have caused the higher metals, but only way to know it to do trials and testing, even if this engine was back spec'd to a 20 weight, doesn't mean that is the best weight for the engine, which is basically what the oil thinned to.
Im going to do one more short (3k) run of PYB then move to the HM oils and see how they fare. The hard decision is going to be which HM to use. I have been looking into the semi synthetic pennzoil, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, heck all of them. I have a lot more research ahead of me. I think that 20 weight would probably be fine if it was all highway miles, but mine is now 80%+ city driving. Others have suggested moving to a heavier weight (Xw40) also. I am seriously considering that as well.
Defy, Pennzoil HM, Castrol HM, Valvoline Max Life, Havoline HM would be my personal choices. I think Castrol is the thickest of the bunch. I haven't found a whole lot of user experience UOA's with Mobil 1 HM to have anything to compare to but I may get lashed for this on here but there are many complaints with Mobil 1 and higher iron like you are experiencing so I am not sure Mobil 1 HM would provide the results you want, but then again it could be very different than normal Mobil 1. RP is good as any but expensive and probably comparable to Max Life full synthetic which might be cheaper. I think, again just my opinion, before I would hit the w40's, I would maybe try a HDEO, they are a little thicker in their grade and resist shear, one that comes to mind right away is T5 10w30, Chevron Delo 5w30 and I am sure a few more are out there in the 30 range. I have used 0w40 Castrol not long ago, probably too thick, I noticed a little sluggishness in the engine and lost mpg's (mine is spec'd for 5w30).
I have never considered the HDEOs. Im going to look into how that would work in my application. As for the RP HM, its pricey, but if it is anything like the rest of their stuff it must be good. I have never had bad luck with any RP product, and I use their API SN oil exclusively in the wifes SUV. Lot of good info here. Thanks for the input!
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
I'd only use MMO as a final-500-mile before an oil change "flush" to clean it up a bit.
On the entire question of putting in additives at all, I think we all have to recognize that engine oils could be better if the oil companies wouldn't just quit adding good stuff in there as soon as they pass their specs. They save money often times by using LESS moly, nano-boron, etc. Additives, if carefully chosen by looking at the data available on it, can be excellent. Ceratec, Liquimoly MoS2, Hyperlube, Lubegard Biotech, all can be a good idea to boost oil.
Surprisingly, I must say I completely agree. A lot of people utilize the benefits of additives such as Liquimoly, Riselone, MMO etc. This is why I use MMO, for extra boron and cleaning properties. I leave it in the full OCI though, as my intervals never (with the exception of this sample) run more than 5k miles. I also use a 5 minute motor flush before each oil change (but that is added after taking a small sample from the oil pan for the UOA)
Found this, good price http://www.amazon.com/Delo-271210339-3PK...#productDetails
here is the pds:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=384346&docFormat=PDF
It is SN and Diesel rated which means it has to be more shear stable than a non HDEO oil. Think I might try some of this stuff myself in the future. Notice the viscosity at 100 C is 11.7, most 30w that are SN rated non HDEO are in the 10-10.5 range.
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Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
I have to admit, what first got me going on additives was engine problems that DID get solved. First it was MolaKule explaining how he used the main ingredient found in Hyperlube and Lubegard Biotech to cut wear while lowering ZDDP levels.
But that's not exactly what he said. He said:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
I have used this kind of polymer chemistry in reduced ZDDP (experimental) formulations and I found I could reduce viscosity and still lower wear rates.
Suggested dossge ratio is about 1oz Hyper:13oz PCMO so what I suggest (since I don't see any viscosity or VII data) is adding 2-3oz of this stuff to a quart of oil and have the mix analyzed to make sure the VOA viscosity is still in the 0w20 range or whatever range of oil viscosity you may be using.
The polymer ester I use is about 140 weight (approx. 35 cSt) in its virgin form, but I suspect this stuff is "cut-down" to a 20 or 30 weight.
And then:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
The one thing that we should question with any additive of this type is how the Mfg. determined the dosage levels considering they both say their third-party-additives (TPA) can be used in conventional, Blends, and full synthetic oils?
Hopefully, they did extensive testing.
Followed later in the thread by:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
For the daily driver using a good OTC oil, I see no reason to use it.
If you are concerned about wear during tracking, it may help reduce wear.
But if I were tracking, I think I would use a high ZDDP oil similar to Amsoil's Z-Rod or Dominator racing oils.
The only reason I discuss this at all is because I have used a similar chemistry in a low-vis formulation with 300 ppm of ZDDP and a polymer chemistry, and wear results were good.
And also:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
The http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Zinc-Replacement-Additive-c7.html
is a no-zinc formula for extra anti-wear capabilities that replaces zinc for vehicles in which higher ZDDP levels may affect the catalytic converter.
http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Oil-Supplement-c6.html is an oil thickener for engines that may have oil loss and bad rings, i.e., an engine that is "loosy-goosy."
All you need in an older engine is a good modern oil of the proper viscosity. For a 400, we run a 10W30 or a 10W40, depending on whether it is a "parade" car or whether it is tracked, respectively.
He's not advocating somebody dose their oil with this type of product "for kicks".
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Then, further reading in various tribology articles said those could be used to cut wear at lower activation temperatures than ZDDP, similar to what moly is famous for.
So then just use an oil with Moly in it? Mobil is using the tri-nuclear stuff now, as is, it is believed, SOPUS.
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Then, trying Hyperlube to stop lifter ticking worked definitively. Success. ...
This was your vehicle? I see no mention of that in the thread
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
After that, Ceratec was used by someone who had a newer Mazda and they got very low iron levels in a UOA here on bitog. Further reading about Ceratec showed some organizations thought it worked, and Lubromoly is a respected company.
Well, it is common knowledge on here that UOA's don't show "wear" the way you are trying to use it in the above statement. If you are a fan of reading, I suggest Doug Hillary's article on UOA's on the front page.
I literally got half the iron levels on a UOA between AFE 0w-30 and M1 0w-40. Do I think I reduced my wear by 50%? No. Different operating conditions, different seasons....etc. Both levels were well within the reasonable range. All both results mean are that the engine is healthy. Nothing more.
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
And yes, the oil makers are there to make a profit, so most aren't going to put in more additives than it takes to pass all the certification specs they want. They could do more.
And the additive makers are there to make a profit and to get you to think that there is something "missing" from your fully formulated lubricant. This works both ways. The difference is that the fully formulated product actually has to be tested and approved, whilst the Wizards get none of that. They are relying on hopes, dreams, butt dynos, metaphors and anecdotes.
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
You could say "oil is good enough plain", yet some of us see some possible benefit from additives. There will always be those two camps. I won't call the other camp crazy, although they really are. lol
And that's the key point, POSSIBLE benefit. It is also possibly that there is some negative effect. You don't know because you lack the resources to test it in a controlled manner to determine what the result is.
People believe in all kinds of things. Aliens, that Elvis is alive, that there is a long line of Virgins waiting for them on the "other side"...etc. The difference is that while many of those things require blind faith, this doesn't. All it needs is for somebody to spend the money to confirm that, using tests and standards already in place, they do what many claim they do. Funny that nobody has done that yet eh?
I have to admit, what first got me going on additives was engine problems that DID get solved. First it was MolaKule explaining how he used the main ingredient found in Hyperlube and Lubegard Biotech to cut wear while lowering ZDDP levels.
But that's not exactly what he said. He said:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
I have used this kind of polymer chemistry in reduced ZDDP (experimental) formulations and I found I could reduce viscosity and still lower wear rates.
Suggested dossge ratio is about 1oz Hyper:13oz PCMO so what I suggest (since I don't see any viscosity or VII data) is adding 2-3oz of this stuff to a quart of oil and have the mix analyzed to make sure the VOA viscosity is still in the 0w20 range or whatever range of oil viscosity you may be using.
The polymer ester I use is about 140 weight (approx. 35 cSt) in its virgin form, but I suspect this stuff is "cut-down" to a 20 or 30 weight.
And then:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
The one thing that we should question with any additive of this type is how the Mfg. determined the dosage levels considering they both say their third-party-additives (TPA) can be used in conventional, Blends, and full synthetic oils?
Hopefully, they did extensive testing.
Followed later in the thread by:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
For the daily driver using a good OTC oil, I see no reason to use it.
If you are concerned about wear during tracking, it may help reduce wear.
But if I were tracking, I think I would use a high ZDDP oil similar to Amsoil's Z-Rod or Dominator racing oils.
The only reason I discuss this at all is because I have used a similar chemistry in a low-vis formulation with 300 ppm of ZDDP and a polymer chemistry, and wear results were good.
And also:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
The http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Zinc-Replacement-Additive-c7.html
is a no-zinc formula for extra anti-wear capabilities that replaces zinc for vehicles in which higher ZDDP levels may affect the catalytic converter.
http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Oil-Supplement-c6.html is an oil thickener for engines that may have oil loss and bad rings, i.e., an engine that is "loosy-goosy."
All you need in an older engine is a good modern oil of the proper viscosity. For a 400, we run a 10W30 or a 10W40, depending on whether it is a "parade" car or whether it is tracked, respectively.
He's not advocating somebody dose their oil with this type of product "for kicks".
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Then, further reading in various tribology articles said those could be used to cut wear at lower activation temperatures than ZDDP, similar to what moly is famous for.
So then just use an oil with Moly in it? Mobil is using the tri-nuclear stuff now, as is, it is believed, SOPUS.
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Then, trying Hyperlube to stop lifter ticking worked definitively. Success. ...
This was your vehicle? I see no mention of that in the thread
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
After that, Ceratec was used by someone who had a newer Mazda and they got very low iron levels in a UOA here on bitog. Further reading about Ceratec showed some organizations thought it worked, and Lubromoly is a respected company.
Well, it is common knowledge on here that UOA's don't show "wear" the way you are trying to use it in the above statement. If you are a fan of reading, I suggest Doug Hillary's article on UOA's on the front page.
I literally got half the iron levels on a UOA between AFE 0w-30 and M1 0w-40. Do I think I reduced my wear by 50%? No. Different operating conditions, different seasons....etc. Both levels were well within the reasonable range. All both results mean are that the engine is healthy. Nothing more.
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
And yes, the oil makers are there to make a profit, so most aren't going to put in more additives than it takes to pass all the certification specs they want. They could do more.
And the additive makers are there to make a profit and to get you to think that there is something "missing" from your fully formulated lubricant. This works both ways. The difference is that the fully formulated product actually has to be tested and approved, whilst the Wizards get none of that. They are relying on hopes, dreams, butt dynos, metaphors and anecdotes.
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
You could say "oil is good enough plain", yet some of us see some possible benefit from additives. There will always be those two camps. I won't call the other camp crazy, although they really are. lol
And that's the key point, POSSIBLE benefit. It is also possibly that there is some negative effect. You don't know because you lack the resources to test it in a controlled manner to determine what the result is.
People believe in all kinds of things. Aliens, that Elvis is alive, that there is a long line of Virgins waiting for them on the "other side"...etc. The difference is that while many of those things require blind faith, this doesn't. All it needs is for somebody to spend the money to confirm that, using tests and standards already in place, they do what many claim they do. Funny that nobody has done that yet eh?
Originally Posted By: jk_636
]
It is a straight 10 weight. Just because it was designed in the 30s doesnt make it obsolete.
2.6cst @100C and 10cst @40C
seems pretty thin to me, also it has pretty much no additives in it, so I stand by my claim of it just diluting your motor oil.
might as well add a pint of vegetable oil and a pint of kero. It couldn't be much worse.
Oh wait, you are already adding the kero. That's the gunk 5min engine killer.
]
It is a straight 10 weight. Just because it was designed in the 30s doesnt make it obsolete.
2.6cst @100C and 10cst @40C
seems pretty thin to me, also it has pretty much no additives in it, so I stand by my claim of it just diluting your motor oil.
might as well add a pint of vegetable oil and a pint of kero. It couldn't be much worse.
Oh wait, you are already adding the kero. That's the gunk 5min engine killer.
Aliens are real and Elvis is still alive. I think I saw them both over in the "Oil Additives" section of this forum. You should go check over there...
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: jk_636
]
It is a straight 10 weight. Just because it was designed in the 30s doesnt make it obsolete.
2.6cst @100C and 10cst @40C
seems pretty thin to me, also it has pretty much no additives in it, so I stand by my claim of it just diluting your motor oil.
might as well add a pint of vegetable oil and a pint of kero. It couldn't be much worse.
Oh wait, you are already adding the kero. That's the gunk 5min engine killer.
5 minute motor killer?
You guys crack me up...beware of the death that can occur in 5 minutes of a motor flush! Maybe Im having all these wear numbers because I have a gallon jug of MMO in the passenger side floorboard of my truck. It is probably haunting it from the inside out
Originally Posted By: jk_636
]
It is a straight 10 weight. Just because it was designed in the 30s doesnt make it obsolete.
2.6cst @100C and 10cst @40C
seems pretty thin to me, also it has pretty much no additives in it, so I stand by my claim of it just diluting your motor oil.
might as well add a pint of vegetable oil and a pint of kero. It couldn't be much worse.
Oh wait, you are already adding the kero. That's the gunk 5min engine killer.
5 minute motor killer?
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: jk_636
]
It is a straight 10 weight. Just because it was designed in the 30s doesnt make it obsolete.
2.6cst @100C and 10cst @40C
seems pretty thin to me, also it has pretty much no additives in it, so I stand by my claim of it just diluting your motor oil.
might as well add a pint of vegetable oil and a pint of kero. It couldn't be much worse.
Oh wait, you are already adding the kero. That's the gunk 5min engine killer.
5 minute motor killer?
You guys crack me up...beware of the death that can occur in 5 minutes of a motor flush! Maybe Im having all these wear numbers because I have a gallon jug of MMO in the passenger side floorboard of my truck. It is probably haunting it from the inside out
yep 5 min engine killer, for those engines that do have heavy sludge if this actually manages to dislodge a piece of it.. and create blockage.
You want to dissolve the crud slow, generally by using a high quality motor oil.
So how is MMO adding boron again since it has 0 in it?
you are just diluting the motor oil with MMO which has no business being anywhere near the crankcase on a modern engine with modern motor oil in it. You could possibly make a case for it as a UCL in gas.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: jk_636
]
It is a straight 10 weight. Just because it was designed in the 30s doesnt make it obsolete.
2.6cst @100C and 10cst @40C
seems pretty thin to me, also it has pretty much no additives in it, so I stand by my claim of it just diluting your motor oil.
might as well add a pint of vegetable oil and a pint of kero. It couldn't be much worse.
Oh wait, you are already adding the kero. That's the gunk 5min engine killer.
5 minute motor killer?
yep 5 min engine killer, for those engines that do have heavy sludge if this actually manages to dislodge a piece of it.. and create blockage.
You want to dissolve the crud slow, generally by using a high quality motor oil.
So how is MMO adding boron again since it has 0 in it?
you are just diluting the motor oil with MMO which has no business being anywhere near the crankcase on a modern engine with modern motor oil in it. You could possibly make a case for it as a UCL in gas.
I have used 5 minute motor flush every oil change on every vehicle (besides the brand new escape) that I have owned. Cleans it up and keeps rocking on down the road. No motor death yet.
As for the MMO (and Boron) here is a link with some good reading material:
http://blog.garagistry.com/2012/04/the-mystery-of-marvel-mystery-oil.html
As for the MMO (and Boron) here is a link with some good reading material:
http://blog.garagistry.com/2012/04/the-mystery-of-marvel-mystery-oil.html
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Originally Posted By: jk_636
I have used 5 minute motor flush every oil change on every vehicle (besides the brand new escape) that I have owned. Cleans it up and keeps rocking on down the road. No motor death yet.
As for the MMO (and Boron) here is a link with some good reading material:
http://blog.garagistry.com/2012/04/the-mystery-of-marvel-mystery-oil.html
Yeah, I love the last bit:
Quote:
IN CONCLUSION
Can we "officially" recommend or endorse the use of MMO? No, because we are not experts in the field of lubricants or chemistry, but based on the fact it has been used for over 90 years, our own positive experiences along with those of others, we can't condemn it either.
In this case, results of using MMO are either "CONFIRMED", or "PLAUSIBLE". Additionally and regardless of the "scientific powers" of MMO, it's as much a part of automotive history as the carburetor itself.
LOL!!!
BTW, this is fun:
UOA of M1 5w-20 with MMO, 30ppm Boron:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3177953
VOA of M1 5w-20, 79ppm Boron:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3177953
I have used 5 minute motor flush every oil change on every vehicle (besides the brand new escape) that I have owned. Cleans it up and keeps rocking on down the road. No motor death yet.
As for the MMO (and Boron) here is a link with some good reading material:
http://blog.garagistry.com/2012/04/the-mystery-of-marvel-mystery-oil.html
Yeah, I love the last bit:
Quote:
IN CONCLUSION
Can we "officially" recommend or endorse the use of MMO? No, because we are not experts in the field of lubricants or chemistry, but based on the fact it has been used for over 90 years, our own positive experiences along with those of others, we can't condemn it either.
In this case, results of using MMO are either "CONFIRMED", or "PLAUSIBLE". Additionally and regardless of the "scientific powers" of MMO, it's as much a part of automotive history as the carburetor itself.
LOL!!!
BTW, this is fun:
UOA of M1 5w-20 with MMO, 30ppm Boron:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3177953
VOA of M1 5w-20, 79ppm Boron:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3177953
Originally Posted By: jk_636
I have used 5 minute motor flush every oil change on every vehicle (besides the brand new escape) that I have owned. Cleans it up and keeps rocking on down the road. No motor death yet.
As for the MMO (and Boron) here is a link with some good reading material:
http://blog.garagistry.com/2012/04/the-mystery-of-marvel-mystery-oil.html
Gee maybe that's because there was no buildup to clean? Quality motor oils changed on a reasonable schedule dont leave crud all over.. this isnt 1930 when MMO came out.. and we arent using API SA straight from the oil well crude in the engine.
I have used 5 minute motor flush every oil change on every vehicle (besides the brand new escape) that I have owned. Cleans it up and keeps rocking on down the road. No motor death yet.
As for the MMO (and Boron) here is a link with some good reading material:
http://blog.garagistry.com/2012/04/the-mystery-of-marvel-mystery-oil.html
Gee maybe that's because there was no buildup to clean? Quality motor oils changed on a reasonable schedule dont leave crud all over.. this isnt 1930 when MMO came out.. and we arent using API SA straight from the oil well crude in the engine.
Lmao, what a site. At least they correctly conclude there's no evidence it does anything.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
As for the MMO (and Boron) here is a link with some good reading material:
http://blog.garagistry.com/2012/04/the-mystery-of-marvel-mystery-oil.html
Originally Posted By: jk_636
As for the MMO (and Boron) here is a link with some good reading material:
http://blog.garagistry.com/2012/04/the-mystery-of-marvel-mystery-oil.html
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
this thread sounds more like product placement than an actual UOA.
It was supposed to be a legit discussion over my UOA. As soon as certain people saw that I used a certain oil additive, the thread pretty much got hijacked. I could care less what "they" think of my oil choices, I just want to know where that *#@(*$ copper is coming from, and if the level is something that requires attention!
this thread sounds more like product placement than an actual UOA.
It was supposed to be a legit discussion over my UOA. As soon as certain people saw that I used a certain oil additive, the thread pretty much got hijacked. I could care less what "they" think of my oil choices, I just want to know where that *#@(*$ copper is coming from, and if the level is something that requires attention!
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
this thread sounds more like product placement than an actual UOA.
It was supposed to be a legit discussion over my UOA. As soon as certain people saw that I used a certain oil additive, the thread pretty much got hijacked. I could care less what "they" think of my oil choices, I just want to know where that *#@(*$ copper is coming from, and if the level is something that requires attention!
uh hint there is a very good chance the elevated wear metals are coming from using MMO and engine flush. Thats why we are talking about it while you have your head in the sand.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
this thread sounds more like product placement than an actual UOA.
It was supposed to be a legit discussion over my UOA. As soon as certain people saw that I used a certain oil additive, the thread pretty much got hijacked. I could care less what "they" think of my oil choices, I just want to know where that *#@(*$ copper is coming from, and if the level is something that requires attention!
uh hint there is a very good chance the elevated wear metals are coming from using MMO and engine flush. Thats why we are talking about it while you have your head in the sand.
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Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
this thread sounds more like product placement than an actual UOA.
It was supposed to be a legit discussion over my UOA. As soon as certain people saw that I used a certain oil additive, the thread pretty much got hijacked. I could care less what "they" think of my oil choices, I just want to know where that *#@(*$ copper is coming from, and if the level is something that requires attention!
uh hint there is a very good chance the elevated wear metals are coming from using MMO and engine flush. Thats why we are talking about it while you have your head in the sand.
Bingo. It seems the potential for this correlation is being intentionally ignored
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
this thread sounds more like product placement than an actual UOA.
It was supposed to be a legit discussion over my UOA. As soon as certain people saw that I used a certain oil additive, the thread pretty much got hijacked. I could care less what "they" think of my oil choices, I just want to know where that *#@(*$ copper is coming from, and if the level is something that requires attention!
uh hint there is a very good chance the elevated wear metals are coming from using MMO and engine flush. Thats why we are talking about it while you have your head in the sand.
Bingo. It seems the potential for this correlation is being intentionally ignored
Your right, it is being ignored.
I came on here to find out if the copper level was in fact too high, and find out where it could be coming from. Few have commented on the copper level and no one has given any input on where it is coming from. Everyone is so up in arms about oil additives that they cant seem to bring themselves to analyze the UOA. If I wouldn't have said that this sample contained MMO, no one would have ever been able to tell the difference just by looking at this UOA. I appreciate everyones opinions, but I know that the MMO and 5 minute motor flushes are not causing any detriment to my motor. If it was, there would be a lot more than just a negligable increase in copper in the UOA, and I would be seeing, hearing or feeling a change in the motor. Im not going to quit using them, so we may as well just move on.
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