I had a 95 neon (Bought new) that I ran nothing but conventional oil in, and when I pulled the heads off at 140k (Timing belt broke, bent the valves) the top half of the engine was spotless except for some minor varnish. Machine shop cleaned it up like new, slapped it back together and drove it for another 40k on conventional until I finally sold it since all the dents on the body made it an embarrassment to drive!
Mobil 1 use means a clean engine?
- Thread starter ZZman
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UOAs, at least the ones typically used around here, are also problematical in that they don't seem to do well detecting sludging, as some UOAs that have been blessed here came from engines that were actually sludging badly.
People typically want to make things more complicated than they are or more often simpler than they are. The vast majority of people in the world seem to do fine without consulting bitog and just using the maker's oil and oil change interval recommendations. If there are problems it's almost always an engine design problem and not an oil problem. In this case M1 fares well as it's by far the nost common synthetic used by OEMs. Bitog users like to make it more complicated, me included. Many bitog users then go on and make things simpler than they are by assuming that a $20 UOA is the one true measure of wear and indicator of oil quality, me not included.
If you have the time and a warped sense of humor at least it can be entertaining sometimes; ..did you hear about the guy changing his oil and ......
People typically want to make things more complicated than they are or more often simpler than they are. The vast majority of people in the world seem to do fine without consulting bitog and just using the maker's oil and oil change interval recommendations. If there are problems it's almost always an engine design problem and not an oil problem. In this case M1 fares well as it's by far the nost common synthetic used by OEMs. Bitog users like to make it more complicated, me included. Many bitog users then go on and make things simpler than they are by assuming that a $20 UOA is the one true measure of wear and indicator of oil quality, me not included.
If you have the time and a warped sense of humor at least it can be entertaining sometimes; ..did you hear about the guy changing his oil and ......
Originally Posted By: ZZman
For those who had the clean motors on conventional oil what were your OCI's?
My intervals were anywhere between 6-10k.
This was with city driving, lots of short trips under 10 miles. I did keep the engine oil topped off to full, the engine consumed 1 qt every 3k on average.
For those who had the clean motors on conventional oil what were your OCI's?
My intervals were anywhere between 6-10k.
This was with city driving, lots of short trips under 10 miles. I did keep the engine oil topped off to full, the engine consumed 1 qt every 3k on average.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Art Vandelay,
Two weeks ago I called Mobil and their tech told me that all Mobil 1 tagged oils are group 4 oils.
How did you ever get someone there to tell you that? They always keep that a secret. I don't think he knows what he was talking about.
Art Vandelay,
Two weeks ago I called Mobil and their tech told me that all Mobil 1 tagged oils are group 4 oils.
How did you ever get someone there to tell you that? They always keep that a secret. I don't think he knows what he was talking about.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: ZZman
For those who had the clean motors on conventional oil what were your OCI's?
My intervals were anywhere between 6-10k.
This was with city driving, lots of short trips under 10 miles. I did keep the engine oil topped off to full, the engine consumed 1 qt every 3k on average.
What oil and what car/engine?
Originally Posted By: ZZman
For those who had the clean motors on conventional oil what were your OCI's?
My intervals were anywhere between 6-10k.
This was with city driving, lots of short trips under 10 miles. I did keep the engine oil topped off to full, the engine consumed 1 qt every 3k on average.
What oil and what car/engine?
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: ZZman
For those who had the clean motors on conventional oil what were your OCI's?
My intervals were anywhere between 6-10k.
This was with city driving, lots of short trips under 10 miles. I did keep the engine oil topped off to full, the engine consumed 1 qt every 3k on average.
What oil and what car/engine?
Whatever 5W30 that was on sale, but mostly Chevron and Havoline. I used entry-level Champs, Fram and Purolator filters.
The engine is the Saturn 1.9L DOHC that is in my signature. The valvetrain only had a very, very light coating of golden varnish around 95k.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: ZZman
For those who had the clean motors on conventional oil what were your OCI's?
My intervals were anywhere between 6-10k.
This was with city driving, lots of short trips under 10 miles. I did keep the engine oil topped off to full, the engine consumed 1 qt every 3k on average.
What oil and what car/engine?
Whatever 5W30 that was on sale, but mostly Chevron and Havoline. I used entry-level Champs, Fram and Purolator filters.
The engine is the Saturn 1.9L DOHC that is in my signature. The valvetrain only had a very, very light coating of golden varnish around 95k.
http://www.teraspeed.com/RLI/STLE Cleveland.pdf
You can tell by the TEOST test how good Mobil 1 is at preventing high temperature deposits.
You can tell by the TEOST test how good Mobil 1 is at preventing high temperature deposits.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: ZZman
For those who had the clean motors on conventional oil what were your OCI's?
My intervals were anywhere between 6-10k.
This was with city driving, lots of short trips under 10 miles. I did keep the engine oil topped off to full, the engine consumed 1 qt every 3k on average.
What oil and what car/engine?
Whatever 5W30 that was on sale, but mostly Chevron and Havoline. I used entry-level Champs, Fram and Purolator filters.
The engine is the Saturn 1.9L DOHC that is in my signature. The valvetrain only had a very, very light coating of golden varnish around 95k.
I've gotta touch on this one.
A buddy of mine ended up with an SC1 with the 1.9L. The 2nd owner was another friend of mine who hated the car. It MIGHT have got THREE oil changes in the entire time he owned it, and he put like 200,000Km on it.
My other friend bought it for a winter beater with just under 300,000km; 286,000 or something IIRC. Drove it for the summer, then the winter, in the middle of February he thought it blew it up. It was running like [censored], missing horribly. Since the engine used about 1L/week, he was just running Kendall 5w30 in it.
Took the valve cover off and there was lots of varnish everywhere (THICK varnish) but no real sludge. We were surprised, since we were both familiar with the car's maintenance history (or the lack thereof). Ended up that it had broke valve spring.
He bought an SL1 for a couple hundred dollars, we borrowed one of the valve springs out of it, and she was back on the road.
I think the (seemingly inherent) oil consumption with the car was what helped it. Even though the oil wasn't changed, it was always getting fresh oil. As the car aged, the consumption just got worse, so it was "self changing" more often
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: ZZman
For those who had the clean motors on conventional oil what were your OCI's?
My intervals were anywhere between 6-10k.
This was with city driving, lots of short trips under 10 miles. I did keep the engine oil topped off to full, the engine consumed 1 qt every 3k on average.
What oil and what car/engine?
Whatever 5W30 that was on sale, but mostly Chevron and Havoline. I used entry-level Champs, Fram and Purolator filters.
The engine is the Saturn 1.9L DOHC that is in my signature. The valvetrain only had a very, very light coating of golden varnish around 95k.
I've gotta touch on this one.
A buddy of mine ended up with an SC1 with the 1.9L. The 2nd owner was another friend of mine who hated the car. It MIGHT have got THREE oil changes in the entire time he owned it, and he put like 200,000Km on it.
My other friend bought it for a winter beater with just under 300,000km; 286,000 or something IIRC. Drove it for the summer, then the winter, in the middle of February he thought it blew it up. It was running like [censored], missing horribly. Since the engine used about 1L/week, he was just running Kendall 5w30 in it.
Took the valve cover off and there was lots of varnish everywhere (THICK varnish) but no real sludge. We were surprised, since we were both familiar with the car's maintenance history (or the lack thereof). Ended up that it had broke valve spring.
He bought an SL1 for a couple hundred dollars, we borrowed one of the valve springs out of it, and she was back on the road.
I think the (seemingly inherent) oil consumption with the car was what helped it. Even though the oil wasn't changed, it was always getting fresh oil. As the car aged, the consumption just got worse, so it was "self changing" more often
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi everyone.Thanks JAG,thats exactly what I meant.I wasnt implying that M1 was the problem,just maybe I should change it more frequently.
I have been doing 7500 mile oil changes on the truck in the past because I thought it was probably under non severe conditions.I keep it up well(its my wifes),so breakdowns are a no-no.It developed a small leak at valve cover.When I got it off I noticed a some small amounts of sludge,not that bad but noticable.She has used M1 in all her vehicles(3)since we have been married(24 yrs).We put head gasket on her previous truck 98 s-10,2.2 and it was very clean(119,000 and changed every 7500)inside.
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: tig1
Art Vandelay,
Two weeks ago I called Mobil and their tech told me that all Mobil 1 tagged oils are group 4 oils.
How did you ever get someone there to tell you that? They always keep that a secret. I don't think he knows what he was talking about.
ZZman, I can only tell you what I was told. I told the M1 tech that there was a lot of buzz about M1 being Grp 3. He told me that was false, that all M1 tagged oils were Gr4.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Art Vandelay,
Two weeks ago I called Mobil and their tech told me that all Mobil 1 tagged oils are group 4 oils.
How did you ever get someone there to tell you that? They always keep that a secret. I don't think he knows what he was talking about.
ZZman, I can only tell you what I was told. I told the M1 tech that there was a lot of buzz about M1 being Grp 3. He told me that was false, that all M1 tagged oils were Gr4.
Apparently my post on the 'known sludger' 1996 Toyota engine above did not state what I intended...the engine does NOT show a hint, whatsoever of sludge. It's in great shape. Again, I am a believer in the great performance of Mobil-i engine oil and have NO plans to change brands. It works for me and we drive all our vehicles between 1/4 & 1/2 million miles in one of the dustiest regions of the entire Nation. They continue to run well, even when we finally sell them...all of them on M-1/Delvac-1.
I said M1 was a great oil, I did not blame it for any problems...just a comment fro over 20 years using the product.No I havent put millions of miles on my vehicles wit it but I believe I have a right to make a statement, sorry I dont raise M1 to iconic levels like some,but i do know from experience other oils are just as good if not better.Just because I'm new here on BITOG does'nt mean I'm new to cars or repairs and maint.I now feel that with everyone loving ExxonMobil they dont need me as a customer anymore.
Originally Posted By: SubieHo
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Sorry, The only motor I have had to tear apart was spotless. (and ran conventional oil ALL of its life (incl the first 21k as a rent a car)
In all seriousness, Bill, what happened to this car? Head gasket? Coolant in the oil? I actually wonder if the valve head on my Subaru would look more or less the same if I had run a conventional oil at those same intervals.
Head gaskets. 2 sets within 108k.
Once I fixed it I sold it to a friend who wanted it badly. He has about 160k on it now and all is good.
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Sorry, The only motor I have had to tear apart was spotless. (and ran conventional oil ALL of its life (incl the first 21k as a rent a car)
In all seriousness, Bill, what happened to this car? Head gasket? Coolant in the oil? I actually wonder if the valve head on my Subaru would look more or less the same if I had run a conventional oil at those same intervals.
Head gaskets. 2 sets within 108k.
Once I fixed it I sold it to a friend who wanted it badly. He has about 160k on it now and all is good.
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I waiting for Bill to chime in.
Ok, I'll chime in.
This board and these threads have shown how STUPID this board has become.
Unless you tear down a engine, any other facts are useless.
UOAs are useless.
I guess I need to be tearing apart my motors to prove that all is ok.
Sorry, The only motor I have had to tear apart was spotless. (and ran conventional oil ALL of its life (incl the first 21k as a rent a car)
I've had to have valve covers off and they were spotless. But that would be impossible since I am not intelligent enough to want the best for my engines and spend the "little" extra for the real good oil.
In over 30 years, never had any REASON to be tearing apart perfectly running engines. Engines that run well past 200, 300k MILES with NO issues.
I'm glad I don't have to spent all my time defending wasting $$ for oil that they don't need.
This is NOT the board I joined when it started back in 2002. I've spent a lot of time and effort to try to state facts over the years to keep things real.
I see that was time wasted.
New members who post 500 times in a couple of weeks INSTEAD of maybe spending time READING posts and gaining data before posting away.
I guess 30 plus years of actual experience means nothing to a 30 year old. They spend the $$ for the best and that is all there is to it.
You guys can have at it.
Congratulations on really making informative threads.
Bill
Well, my last post never made it , so I guess I will tone it down. To Bill and Greggy and other like minded regulars I have one word--PTPTHHHHH. You sound like a bunch of grumpy old men. Sorry some of the new members re-hash old topics and don't use the search function (which is hard to use). Sorry we have ruined your little club. I find it a positive that there are lots of new members who are interested in educating themselves and wanting to do everything they can to prolong their vehicles' lives. People come here to learn from those with more experience and ask reasonable questions, albeit in their own way. The best teachers are those who are patient and unperturbed when they repeat themselves. Your input is valued. Take a page from Doug Hillary. He's patient and always gives cheerful responses and never is condescending. There--I feel better now.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I waiting for Bill to chime in.
Ok, I'll chime in.
This board and these threads have shown how STUPID this board has become.
Unless you tear down a engine, any other facts are useless.
UOAs are useless.
I guess I need to be tearing apart my motors to prove that all is ok.
Sorry, The only motor I have had to tear apart was spotless. (and ran conventional oil ALL of its life (incl the first 21k as a rent a car)
I've had to have valve covers off and they were spotless. But that would be impossible since I am not intelligent enough to want the best for my engines and spend the "little" extra for the real good oil.
In over 30 years, never had any REASON to be tearing apart perfectly running engines. Engines that run well past 200, 300k MILES with NO issues.
I'm glad I don't have to spent all my time defending wasting $$ for oil that they don't need.
This is NOT the board I joined when it started back in 2002. I've spent a lot of time and effort to try to state facts over the years to keep things real.
I see that was time wasted.
New members who post 500 times in a couple of weeks INSTEAD of maybe spending time READING posts and gaining data before posting away.
I guess 30 plus years of actual experience means nothing to a 30 year old. They spend the $$ for the best and that is all there is to it.
You guys can have at it.
Congratulations on really making informative threads.
Bill
Well, my last post never made it , so I guess I will tone it down. To Bill and Greggy and other like minded regulars I have one word--PTPTHHHHH. You sound like a bunch of grumpy old men. Sorry some of the new members re-hash old topics and don't use the search function (which is hard to use). Sorry we have ruined your little club. I find it a positive that there are lots of new members who are interested in educating themselves and wanting to do everything they can to prolong their vehicles' lives. People come here to learn from those with more experience and ask reasonable questions, albeit in their own way. The best teachers are those who are patient and unperturbed when they repeat themselves. Your input is valued. Take a page from Doug Hillary. He's patient and always gives cheerful responses and never is condescending. There--I feel better now.
Originally Posted By: JDD
Well, my last post never made it , so I guess I will tone it down. To Bill and Greggy and other like minded regulars I have one word--PTPTHHHHH. You sound like a bunch of grumpy old men. Sorry some of the new members re-hash old topics and don't use the search function (which is hard to use). Sorry we have ruined your little club. I find it a positive that there are lots of new members who are interested in educating themselves and wanting to do everything they can to prolong their vehicles' lives. People come here to learn from those with more experience and ask reasonable questions, albeit in their own way. The best teachers are those who are patient and unperturbed when they repeat themselves. Your input is valued. Take a page from Doug Hillary. He's patient and always gives cheerful responses and never is condescending. There--I feel better now.
I don't think Bill is referring to the average newbie who is here to learn and to contribute as they can. OTOH, There are a few here that definitely fit his description.
Well, my last post never made it , so I guess I will tone it down. To Bill and Greggy and other like minded regulars I have one word--PTPTHHHHH. You sound like a bunch of grumpy old men. Sorry some of the new members re-hash old topics and don't use the search function (which is hard to use). Sorry we have ruined your little club. I find it a positive that there are lots of new members who are interested in educating themselves and wanting to do everything they can to prolong their vehicles' lives. People come here to learn from those with more experience and ask reasonable questions, albeit in their own way. The best teachers are those who are patient and unperturbed when they repeat themselves. Your input is valued. Take a page from Doug Hillary. He's patient and always gives cheerful responses and never is condescending. There--I feel better now.
I don't think Bill is referring to the average newbie who is here to learn and to contribute as they can. OTOH, There are a few here that definitely fit his description.
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I used Mobil 1 15W50 EP/silver cap for about 5 years in my car and the engine`s upper internals (camshafts) are spotless!
JDD,
These new members need to read my sig, which is actually a quote from farrarfan1.
"What gets overlooked too often is that one must be a student before becoming a teacher."
A lot (not all) of the new members are not educating themselves. Part of educating is listening and reading, which is NOT happening based on the [censored] statements they throw around as fact.
As Bill indicated, the post whores would be better served reading this board and absorbing the information rather than racking up hundreds of useless posts per week.
These new members need to read my sig, which is actually a quote from farrarfan1.
"What gets overlooked too often is that one must be a student before becoming a teacher."
A lot (not all) of the new members are not educating themselves. Part of educating is listening and reading, which is NOT happening based on the [censored] statements they throw around as fact.
As Bill indicated, the post whores would be better served reading this board and absorbing the information rather than racking up hundreds of useless posts per week.
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