I dropped the factory fill in my new MK8 GTI at 700 miles and all it will ever see is HPL 0w-30. It’s the new EA888 Gen 4 with a little more HP than gen 3 but I’m not sure what else is different but VW 504 is what I’m running.
Mobil 1 ESP 0w20 vs liqui moly toptec6200 0w20 vw508/509
- Thread starter wantboost
- Start date
What I said was the exact reason Volkswagen gave for those engines where 508 00 oil is not allowed. You can make up stuff all you want, but an oil with too low an HT/HS most certainly can damage an engine.
The ea888 gen 3 used in multiple vehicles to include the gti, tiguan, gli, etc. Alll specced a 502 00 and then changed to a 508 00 in 2019. So what changed about the ea888 gen 3 that required it a 502 00? Nothing changed, and it was verified that it was for efficiency. Obviously the 508 00 is not "damaging" engines, it may however increase wear over time. Unless wear and damage are now interchangeable?
Most important thing here is the 229.71 which is what the AMG M139 uses and is more power dense than pretty much anything at over 200hp per liter. For reference the new Z06 makes 121hp per liter.
What changed is that VW considered 508 00 acceptable for those engines. However, the reasoning VW gave for not using it in those engines for which it is not listed still stands.
People really like to argue on this. Thick vs. thin lives.
508 00 didn't exist back then... so saying why they didn't use it is simply because it didn't exist.
While true your conclusion makes no sense. It is because an oil with too low of an HT/HS can damage an engine.
Unless you wish to propose some alternate physics.
A higher HT/HS can potentially reduce wear, unless damage and wear are now interchangeable? And again so all of a sudden an ea888 is getting damaged from running a 508 00? Im really confused why VW would do such a thing.
Agreed.
Adding to the discussion on the Mobil 1 ESP 0w-20 oil. I recently acquired a 2024 VW Atlas CS with the EA888.4 engine and was doing some homework on oil changes. My 2014 GLI with the EA888.3 engine was ok with Euro-Spec 0w-40 or 5w-30 so I figured I could keep up my same routine. When the manual didn't confirm this, I went to the googles. Come to find out, I have just one option, the 0w-20 weight. A little further digging, I find that it's a very specific 0w-20 ESP for fuel economy since the SUV consumes so much. I saw some Mobil 1 0w-20 Advanced Fuel Economy in Costco and thought, great! I can get it at a discount. But the AFE doesn't have the VW 508.00 spec? Turns out that's meant for GM/Ford etc. So looks like the ESP is what I have to use. But why? A little further reading and the consensus is that the ESP has less sulfated ash (SAPS) in formulation than the other 0w-20. Didn't think too much about that, but I was reading my manual (committed to reading all of it) and read something about a "particulate filter" and that it may do a regen from time to time. Well, what's that? Dig into that, and I learn about the Gasoline Particulate Filter that my car has in the Emissions System*, well that was interesting to find. A little further into the topic and I come across a brief about about how the GPF works. In the brief, they go over the function to catch soot and then burn it off once it reaches temp, but also note that "older" oils that are formulated with more SAPS will build up and block the GPF as they squeeze by the piston rings and are burned. Putting all that together, it makes sense why I'd need the Emissions System Protection formula of the Mobil 1 0w-20 oil. Low viscosity to keep my fuel consumption down and low sulphated ash to keep from clogging the GPF.
Here's that brief for context: Gasoline Particulate Filters - why are they needed and how do they work?
Here's that brief for context: Gasoline Particulate Filters - why are they needed and how do they work?
They changed to 508, a 0w20 oil because emissions standards became stricter. Engines which are specced for the thinner oil have a different oil pump to compensate for that. This should probably be a sticky at this point, it gets asked so many times. From VW/Audi engine docs:
Factory bearing clearances haven't changed since the EA888 first came out. They've always been rather tight. The main bearings in the gen4 are coated, but the clearances are the same.
What happens then when you don't do as it says and use higher viscosity than 20?
There is a relief spring in the pump that regulates pressure via a hydraulic control system. Been this way since the first gen EA888, though it's been revised a couple times in the Gen3. There are a couple aftermarket oil pumps which just swap out the sprocket for one with less teeth (to spin faster) but then also change the relief spring to actually allow more pressure (at the cost of more load on the pump, which reduces mpg).
With the OEM spring, oil pressure is kept relatively stable, oil is fed off at a pressure dictated by the spring (and the control valve swapping between high and low pressure stage) and excess oil is fed back to the pan. Very cool system, the EA888.1 SSP goes into more detail on it.
In general I think this means we have a bit more flexibility on viscosities but there's still a balance between wear from cold starts and wear from high heat. The multitude of regulating valves prevent excess pressure messing with cooling and control, but valves can't make cold oil flow faster--in cold starts the pump works as hard as possible and a thinner fluid will get to the moving parts in the head faster.
But because they're there, the motors seem to work fine on thicker oils than intended, though perhaps at the cost of power.
I've never seen someone get a camshaft adjuster code from running oil that's too thick but have seen it from old, non-euro synthetic oil.
