Mobil 1 and K&N Flow Rate ?

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There must be someone from Champion Labs that lurks on this site! Please, if anyone is lurking and has more info to share, please do! There are a lot of oil filter manufacturers out there that are willing to share more detailed info, so why don't you guys do it too? You'll only stand to gain more customers this way. People like to make informed decisions when they are buying stuff, even if it's not a major purchase such as a home or an automobile.
 
In most cases the synthetic media/microglass type oil filters are a total win/win in that they not only are capable of much finer, efficient filtration (10 microns) but also have a lower Delta P (flow easier) and have a much greater dirt/contaminant capacity than a cellulose (normal paper) filter.
I have replaced 3 micron beta 200 micro glass filters where a 30 micron beta 75 cellulose filter was and the 3 micron lasted twice as long before it had to be changed and exhibited the same pressure drop as the 30 micron.
That said, the Mobil 1/AC Gold are micro-glass/synthetic medium filters and should present no flow problems when compared with the K&N, etc. filters AND will do a much better job of filtration at the same time.
George Morrison, STLE CLS
 
George, it sounds as though you're saying that K&N is NOT this type of media (irrespective of the continual name-dropping used to associate themselves w/M1). So . . . is this what you're saying?
Do you have any idea what the unidentified "Micronic" media is in the Pure Ones?
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I believe Pure One is also Microglass/synthetic also. Excellent flow, filtration, capacity. Good filter but I have no first hand experience with the Pure One as I do with the Mobil 1/AC Delco Gold. I have disected both of the latter and indeed they are microglass/synthetic high quality medium.
George
 
From what I understand, the Mobil 1 uses a blended media, while the Ultraguard Gold uses a completely synthetic media. The Ultraguard is only made in two sizes now though, UPF44 (for Corvettes, F-bodies and Cavalier/Sunfire) and the UPF52 (this fits the 3.8 GM engine, plus the Impala LT1)
 
A little more info, along with Pure One info (since I asked George about it previously):

As for the Pure One, here's what I asked:
"Can you tell me what your flow rate is on the PL10241 at 10 psi? Also, can you tell me if your Micronic media is a synthetic or conventional media, & if it has any supplemental treatments or coatings applied to it?"
(This filter is the comp for the K&N HP-1002 & the M1-102.)

And Pure One's response:
"The flow rate of the PL10241 at 10PSI is 11 GPM. The Micronic media is a cellulose base sheet with synthetic glass fibers. There are no supplemental treatments or coatings applied to the media."

Woo-Hoo! Info!
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When I called Mobil's "Oil Filter Hotline" I was told that they don't test their filters to a "max flow rate" (not what I asked) 'cuz the same filter would flow differently on different vehicles. When I asked about specific flow for a specific filter under a specific pressure I was told they don't do that either, "for the same reasons." I DID get this nifty tidbit: they only test their filters at the 3gpm of the SAE filter-efficiency test, but that 3gpm puts them at 8 psid. (Is "psid" different from my "psi" wording in my questions to K&N and Purolator?) The tech also verified that Mobil's media is a cellulose base sheet with synthetic fibers, & that they have no additional treatments to the media.

More info!
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AC UltraGuard Gold Propaganda:

Oil is the lifeblood of an engine. Without proper oil flow, engines wear too quickly and perform poorly in the process.

The more filtered oil that evenly flows through, the better for the engine. "Differential pressure" is the measure of the oil's resistance to flow through the oil filter. The higher the differential pressure, the less oil flows through. In other words, a filter with a higher differential pressure will allow less oil to flow through at any given pressure.

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Differential pressure increases during high RPM conditions and during cold starts when engine oil is more thick and viscous. When the differential pressure gets too high, oil can't flow through the filter easily, if at all.





















Most of today's engines are equipped with a bypass valve to allow oil to detour around the filter when the differential pressure becomes too high. This is intended to protect the engine from oil starvation, but it also allows unfiltered oil to reach vital engine components. To reduce the occurrence of bypass, it's important to minimize the differential pressure of an oil filter.

Ultraguard Gold oil filters have been designed to do exactly that — minimize differential pressure — while providing superior filtration efficiency.

The difference is in the synthetic media.

Ultraguard Gold has 100 percent synthetic, wire-backed media with more small, consistently sized openings. This minimizes differential pressure and resistance to flow while filtering particles as small as 8–10 microns
The graph above shows that Ultraguard Gold filters nearly four gallons per minute of cold oil at a differential pressure of 10 PSID (typical bypass valve opening pressure). Compare that with the Wix Sport Truck brand, which filters only 2.3 gallons at this pressure, or the Mobil 1 filter that handles just 1.6 gallons.

With Ultraguard Gold, you ensure that a good supply of filtered oil is always going to your engine to effectively reduce wear.
 
A small block chevy oil pump puts out 5-6 GPM max, so that would put a Mobil 1 filter in bypass often. Now considering that hot oil flows at least twice as well(I'm figuring better than that though) as cold oil, you would be looking at 3.2GPM max when it's warmed up. Hmmm, I've got to find out if those UPF52s are really still available...

GMPartsDirect show them to be under $10 each for a case of 6. Just e-mailed them to see if it's available.
 
VaderSS,
I'm not following you. Are you saying my wording was good or not? Did I get 2 different meanings back from these guys?

ShootingStar,
I emailed Mobil (thru their Contact Us link) & got an auto-reply to call their Oil Filter Hotline at 800-882-0890. Both times I called I talked with the 1st person who answered & never got referred or transferred. The 1st tech acted as if he was recalling the info from memory. It was on the 2nd call that I asked about psi at 3 gpm, & tech #2 said he had to look it up for me. He then told me the test was run at 3gpm & 8 psid. Unfortunately, I think the "8 psid" info was relayed incorrectly. After I posted, I looked at the Pure One website & their info says that the SAE multi-pass test is run "until the differential pressure reaches eight pounds per square inch." Which, obviously, is quite different. I tried to bring up the test criteria (SAE HS J806N83) on the SAE link provided by Purolator, but all I could get was a price list for either a drum of test oil or the standards for the test oil. Sorry, I guess that "3gpm & 8 psid" tidbit wasn't enough to be either a tid or a bit.
 
Greg, I was not implying that anything in your post was incorrect. The problem with manufacturer supplied data, is that we are comparing apples and oranges.

Example, what fluid is Purolator using for it's flow measure? AC uses cold motor oil and states that the Pureone flows about 2.3GPM with 5W30 oil at 10PSID. I have to assume that Purolator is using hot oil for the 11GPM figure. I'm thinking the Mobil 1 is at least 1/2 that, or not going into bypas exept at high RPMs, when hot.

AC still produces the UPF52, guess I'll be running those from now on.

This, like most topics here, is very confusing.
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VaderSS,
No, I did not ask Purolator what temp their flow was at or what type of fluid it was. Any idea how cold ACD's "cold" oil is? And where is the 5w30 info listed? Yes, I agree that the UltraGuard Gold is the better filter, but they just don't make 'em for my Saabs.

ShootingStar,
Waddaya know?! I don't remember how they answered the phone, but I know it wasn't "Champion Labs." I guess I'll hafta add that to my filter links! (Sorry for dragging PureOne & ACD into your M1/K&N discussion...)
 
quote:

Originally posted by Greg Netzner:
ShootingStar,
Waddaya know?! I don't remember how they answered the phone, but I know it wasn't "Champion Labs." I guess I'll hafta add that to my filter links! (Sorry for dragging PureOne & ACD into your M1/K&N discussion...)


No problem, I'm always looking for a better way. At least it only takes one phone number to ask questions about a bunch of different brands of filters. Unfortunately, the answer's aren't always as easy to come by. And we all want the same thing... ANSWERS!
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At the top of the filter comparison chart, "SUS 2000 oil, Simulates 5W30 at 34F"

If/when they stop making UPFs, I'll go back to Mobil 1. I have had excellent luck with them, but if there is a better filter at a cheaper price...
 
I too believe the UPF filters are the best! When they were out, I used nothing but the UPF1127 in the Honda and the UPF58 on my LS1 Formula. It was a sad day when I found out they stopped making them (I didn't want to put on the tiny UPF44 on my LS1, even though they still made it and that this filter was the stock filter for my car)
 
This AC chart is very misleading ....

They are measuring oil flow rates with a bulk oil temp of 34F - for a 5w30 grade. How long do you think it takes for the bulk oil temps to warm up once the engine is running under load? At this ambient temp, my oil temps reach 60C/140F in about five minutes of driving. At which point the viscosity will have dropped to approx 200-250 SUS and the pressure drop across all these filters will be much less ...

The viscosity of a 5w30 oil @ 200F is in the 60-65 SUS range - on other words it thins out by a factor of 30 times! This chart may accurately reflect the flow rates of these different filter media, but it is N/A to actual engine operation, unless you do very short trip driving in freezing weather ....
 
TooSlick,
This is good! If I'm reading the vis chart correctly then, they're using SUS 2000 (vis meas) oil @ 100F, which gives them the same resistance to flow as 5W @ 34F?

I agree that this only happens at cold start-up, but I think that's their point, right?: "With Ultraguard Gold, you ensure that a good supply of filtered oil is always going to your engine to effectively reduce wear." They want to let us know that they're better at providing cold, FILTERED oil to the engine instead of the unfiltered variety the others provide at start-up. I guess my oil's at or below 34F maybe 20% of my starts throughout the year (WAG!). But, like you say, it warms up quickly. So if the filter's doing its job in the 1st place...

(Uh-oh! I'm starting to wonder 'bout that Trasko filter again ...
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... Help, Mr. Wizard!)
 
Greg,

The viscosity of 2000 Saybolt Universal Seconds is approx the viscosity of a 5w30 or 5w-40 oil when tested at an oil temp of 34F.

Keep in mind that all your oil was running through the filter prior to the last shutdown. The amount of particles generated in the first five minutes of operation is pretty low. Where this improved filtration might come into play is if you were doing cold starts under very dusty conditions. You could conceivably have some silicon by-pass the full flow filter under these conditions. If I had a 4x4 that was really used off-road in very cold weather, this might be a good choice in oil filters ....
 
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