Mobil 1 0w-20 contains more ESTERS?

[pscholte]

quote:

---

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

---

Originally posted by pscholte:
I would like to see what Mobil could come up with if they decided they would produce an oil in the price range of Redline, Neo or Amsoil. Other industries have their super premium products, why not oil companies? I believe there WOULD be demand.

---

ps, I don't buy into the idea that Redline, Neo, and Amsoil are "better" oils just because they cost more. The fact that these are small blenders who have to purchase everything that goes into their oils from vendors is the reason they have to charge more at retail than Mobil does for Mobil 1.

---

G-Man II,

You make a valid point. I'm just not convinced we have seen what Mobil can do if they aren't blending for "a target audience." I believe they could blow the rest of the synthetic crowd convincingly out of the water if they so chose (even Hans and his green elixir).

[ September 10, 2003, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

G-Mann II the three best used oil analysis on this site have all been turned in buy vechiles running Redline. It would be very dificult to compare white papers or ASTM test material and not see Redline come out on top over Mobil 1 SuperSyn! Last I checked ester's were supior to PAO in almost every way other then cost. With out miscability esters added to PAO base stocks PAO almost worthless in automotive application. I belive this was stated by Molakule more then once!

 

[buster]

John, Mobil makes esters and could make an ester oil tomorrow if they wanted to. The new King of used oil analysis is Mobil 1 5w30 at 17k miles. Redline had 3 good ones out of how many bad? Ummm....about 10.

 

[Dr. T]

The cleaning ability (especially acute cleaning) comes from it's "thin" viscosity. ie. a TSB for Mitsubishi engines which exhibit stuck valve lifters is to drain oil and fill with Mobil 1 0w20 and run for high idle for 30 min. or something in order to clean out sludge/varnish....and then replace with regular oil...

 

[buster]

Possible Dr. T, but the higher ester count I think would really be the factor. Mobil 1 5w30 is not too far off from the 0w-20.

 

[buster]

quote:

---

I believe they could blow the rest of the synthetic crowd convincingly out of the water if they so chose (even Hans and his green elixir).

---

Maybe and maybe not. Amsoil works will Lubrizol and they are a force to be reckoned with in the industry. Both ExxonMobil and Lubrizol are the two 500lb gorillas in the industry.

 

[JohnBrowning]

buster, I could care less if they can make one!!! I am only concerned with what they put on the shelfs especialy here in North America. As far as the so called bad used oil analysis for Redline we all know that you have to run it more then one change interval to get good numbers. If other oils did not leave so much junk behind Redline would not have to clean it all out. I do not even put any stock in a used oil analysis with Redline unless it is at least the second or third fill with Redline.

The so called bad used oil analysis were also in cars that were doing Auto-Cross raceing which is a huge variable and has no crossover value to daily driveing at all.

Their is a reson that Terry does not recomend M1 and has people that run M1 sweeten it up with 132 and LC.

The 17,000 mile M1?? Is this the 3MP study. If so I am not too impressed because of all the make up oil!! If it is another used oil analysis post I am not familar with it and I will need to find it. I am going to look for it right now!

 

[JohnBrowning]

buster the ester's not reacting well with soft metals is just not accurate. If this was the case then it would continue to attack the bearings the entire time it is in the car. What we have seen is that each secessive oil change with Redline the results get better and better. Usualy buy the third change everything has settled down. The esters are not attacking the metals they are cleaning wear metals that have stuck to the pores of the engine casting. The esters will actual soak into the surface of the materials and float debrigh out of the pores. This is simalar to what we see with Auto-Rx just not as effective as Auto-Rx hence the longer duration for the cleaning to stablise.

You can not seriously think Terry Dyson would recommend something that attacks bearing materials in an engine!

Terry has also comented that viscosity is not the primary problem with M1 so while adding 15W50 will thicken it up this does not solve the true problem.

In terms of all of their products useing the same chemistry this is not entirely true. Terry did not recomend mixing Mobil 1 0w40 with any other M1 product he comented that this product had a different chemistry.

The ester thing is also kind of silly considering that Delvac-1( I belive you have some of this in your car?) has something like 25% esters and we are assumeing that GC is heavy on esters like 40% or greater. Motul is 100% ester as well on many of their products.

At any rate I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

P.S. Thanks for the link! That was indeed a great UOA!!

[ September 13, 2003, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[buster]

quote:

---

In terms of all of their products useing the same chemistry this is not entirely true. Terry did not recomend mixing Mobil 1 0w40 with any other M1 product he comented that this product had a different chemistry.

---

I agree with some of what your saying. Redline does seem to get better the more you use it. Believe me, I still think Redline is the best built oil you can buy. I'm not saying Mobil 1 is the best. As far as 0w-40 being different chemistry, I don't believe that and I've never heard that. It could be true but the cost doesn't reflect it. I believe what Terry says. He knows much more then I ever will about oil.

[ September 13, 2003, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[buster]

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000784

John, pay attention, this above is the best used oil analysis on this entire site and it's not 3MP's! Also, if most people would just add a qt of 15w-50, Mobil 1 would be fine in extreme cases. You can mix Mobil 1 of any viscosity bc they share the same chemistry across the board. Try doing that with any other brand.

** It's also been stated on here by some of the experts that Redline due to its strong ester content doesn' react well with soft metals.

[ September 13, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Primus]

Looks like the discussion is passing from 0W-20 performance to whether Mobil 1 SuperSyn is a masterpiece or a piece of sh.t. A good time to add few words.

Most probably SS does not contain esters at all or their percentage was reduced till 1-2 %. Everything indicates that now the base stock is
PAO and, depending on oil weight, this or that percentage of alkylated aromatics (probably Dialkylbenzene) and HC. Suppose 0W-20 and 0w30 is made of PAO + AA, but 5w30, 10w30 and 15W-50 - PAO + HC. Dialkylbenzene provides excellent pumping and pour point even in arctic conditions.

There is no doubt in Mobil ability to produce the best oil, but in our days who takes in consideration the need of a dozen thousand of such car enthusiasts like this site participants if millions in N.America and Europe don't know what they have in their crank-case or don't take care of what their mecanics put there except oil brand, its SAE viscosity and declared nature. Are we so naive ? Like any other manufacturer Mobil is driven by competition and therefore needs to reduce cost. If, 3 years ago in Europe all 5W-40 oils (except Shell Helix Ultra and Castrol) were really 100 % synthetic and contained 85-90 % of PAO in their base stocks, now nearly all of them are called "synthetic technology" oils. OEMs do not take care too of what will happen with cars after 3 years warranty period + 2 years and the approach is similar to condoms' recommendations: don't drive your car so long, buy a new one.

FYI:
European Mobil 1 started to lose quickly the market share with their SS. Many car dealers, at least in Eastern Europe, refuse to buy SS for their services and wipe off shelves with old stuff. Could be that SS of first shipments was out of specs for some reasons, but could be already a trend.

Regarding so lovely and often discussed here GC. Unfortunately we may only guess what is really supplied to the USA and Canada and whether and at what degree this stuff is equal to European cousin.

Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30, never very popular and well sold in Europe unlike Mobil 1 OW-40 Tri-Syn, was launched by Burmah Oil in 1995 and it was really esters based till 1999 or 2000. Then, as it became usual, Castrol changed its formulation. I could get confirmation from Castrol people that it is not the esters based oil now, but no details how considerable were these changes.

Over a.m. 0W-30, there are at least 5 others:
- Formula SLX Turbo Diesel (European market)
- Formula SLX Zero-W (Japan market)
- Syntec (apparently North American market)
- SLX GM (GM stuff)
All BMW Longlife-01 (except SLX GM) and ACEA A3/B3
- SLX 01FE (BMW stuff)
BMW Longlife-01FE and ACEA A1/B1

Castrol 0W-40 (Super Racing or Formula RS Power and Protection) is nearly the same Formula SLX 0w30 with more VM. HT/HS is slightly higher then with 0W-30, Mobil 1 0W-40 and Motul 8100 0W-40, but shear stability or shear stability index of all is of the same order (+/-0.4 %) and seems depends more from a lot, though the temporary viscosity loss of each may differ more considerably.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Primus:
Most probably SS does not contain esters at all or their percentage was reduced till 1-2 %. Everything indicates that now the base stock is PAO and, depending on oil weight, this or that percentage of alkylated aromatics (probably Dialkylbenzene) and HC. Suppose 0W-20 and 0w30 is made of PAO + AA, but 5w30, 10w30 and 15W-50 - PAO + HC.

---

Please give us some specific references to the "everything" that indicates Mobil 1 is all PAO now. And for SURE give references to back up your supposition that it contains Group III (HC) base oils.

 

[sprintman]

Redline 5W30 gave me the best economy and lowest noise of the three 30W oils I've trialled. I'm sticking with their gear oils and ATF stuff but can't afford the 5W40 I want for my engine.

 

[pscholte]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Primus:
Hope you delete my name from the list of wanted persons

---

Primus,

Does that mean we have to take your "Most Wanted" picture down from the Post Office wall?

[ September 15, 2003, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[Primus]

G-Man II, I agree that the word "everything" was incorrect: I am not a competitor's lab to find exact composition. Was better to say indirect signs: lower flash point and HT/HS, higher pour point, different specific gravity plus general lubricants industry trend. I never said PAO and HC composition is bad because it may perform better then pure PAO in many everyday applications, but not on track or racing. I'am not an ardent supporter of 100 % Esters too since it is not perfect everywhere. But like all other enthusiasts here I want the best oil for my car and if we find such oil together, then it will not be important who and how made it for us.
Hope you delete my name from the list of wanted persons

 

[Primus]

Again on the P.O. wall among "most wanted" ? Merde, I've already palmed off one double.

 

[pscholte]

You don't look like Saddam Hussein, do you?