MMO is based on group V oil!

[friendly_jacek]

Yes folks, it's official. As another thread on MMO documents, it is mostly naphthenic oil, also known as pale oil. This is officially classified as group V (see table):
http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/gf4_faq.aspx

But, they qualify it by stating:
Quote:
Group V can include quite low quality base stocks, like naphthenic base oils


However, I really started this to ask some questions about naphthenic oil.

I wonder why naphthenic oil is not used in engine lubrication. Would it sludge or thicken more due to oxidation?

Is engine oil additive package dissolved in naphthenic oil?

Are most oil additives based on naphthenic oil?

Does ATF (Dexron III) contain naphthenic oil?

 

[Thomas34]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Yes folks, it's official. As another thread on MMO documents, it is mostly naphthenic oil, also known as pale oil. This is officially classified as group V (see table):
http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/gf4_faq.aspx

But, they qualify it by stating:
Quote:
Group V can include quite low quality base stocks, like naphthenic base oils


However, I really started this to ask some questions about naphthenic oil.

I wonder why naphthenic oil is not used in engine lubrication. Would it sludge or thicken more due to oxidation?

Is engine oil additive package dissolved in naphthenic oil?

Are most oil additives based on naphthenic oil?




what does mean in real world terms?

 

[JHZR2]

not much... but interesting all the same, especially in the continuous argument about fake synthetics...

 

[demarpaint]

Group V oil. Might be time they raise the price. LOL

 

[mechtech2]

Cars are not breaking from using this stuff.

 

[labman]

Nor from not.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Can someone answer my questions please? I googled some and didn't find much. Lets not degenerate into fighting over MMO.

 

[greenaccord02]

I would say 'no' or 'not really' to all the questions except the last one. I don't know about DexIII composition.

 

[MolaKule]

It still doesn't impress me.

GroupV base oils are oils not covered in the other groups. It doesn't mean it's better. The same with Mobil's Group V alkylated naphthalenes; not better, just more solvent and less hydrolytic.

I am still not impressed with MMO as an oil additive; fuel, maybe.

1.
Quote:
I wonder why naphthenic oil is not used in engine lubrication. Would it sludge or thicken more due to oxidation?


Naphthenic oils have low vi, poor oxidation resistance (prone to sludging), and high volatility.

2.
Quote:
Is engine oil additive package dissolved in naphthenic oil?


No. Special solvents and dispersants are used for that purpose.

3.
Quote:
Are most oil additives based on naphthenic oil?


No. Most additives today are ester-based.

4.
Quote:
Does ATF (Dexron III) contain naphthenic oil?



No. See 1. Most older ATF's are GroupII base oils with special friction modifiers and if synthetic, contain PAO and ester components.

Some of the older ATF's like Type "A" had naphthalenes, but that was to lower pour pount and increase solvency.

Naphthenics are simply parafinnics with about 50% less carbon atoms. I.E., kinda like Earl.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Thanks Molakule for shedding some light. I find this topic very confusing.
According to some of my searches, if properly formulated, naphthenic oil is superior to paraffinic oil and comparable to synthetic oil:

Quote:
The white oil is a conventional white oil, obtained using conventional solvent extraction and hydrogenation to produce saturated hydrocarbons free from sulphur and nitrogen. It has been found that white oils with a relatively high naphthenic content exhibit improved properties compared with more paraffinic white oils. Preferably the white oil, used in the present invention naphthenic content of at least 25 wt. %, where ‘naphthenic content’ is defined as the amount of naphthenic carbon as a percentage of the total carbon content of the white oil, according to standard test ASTM D 2140. More preferably the naphthenic content of the white oil is from 30 to 50 wt. %, most preferably 30 to 40 wt. %. A highly naphthenic white oil is obtained by using mild hydrogenation conditions,

Quote:
The results show that the SHPD oil based on a conventional mineral oil breaks down after 800 hours, whereas the equivalent oil based on white oil continues to operate satisfactorily after 1000 hours and has a similar performance to the synthetic based oil.

Quote:
It is important that the white oil contains an antioxidant additive. Surprisingly, it has been found that the white oil tested without the addition of an antioxidant is sensitive to oxidation and can have a lower performance than mineral oil. However, when an anti-oxidant is included in the white oil lubricant formulation the oxidation performance is superior to a comparable formulation based on mineral oil.

Quote:
Thus the results show that the white-oil containing ATF according to the present invention has superior oxidation properties compared to the conventional mineral oil based ATF.

Quote:
The results show that the rate of viscosity increase is lower for the white oil based gear oil, and therefore this has a higher oxidation stability than the mineral based gear oil.


from:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6521570.html

 

[MolaKule]

One can make a lubricant out of just about any base oil. The problem is getting a decent pour point, viscosity index, and oxidation resistance without a high dose additive package, and this solvent refined, slightly hydrogenated white oil is no exception.

Some observations:

At one time there was a large quantity of naphthenic oils out there in storage and cheap, so it is no suprise someone filed a patent to take advantage of this situation.

Also notice the oils used in testing were Mobil oils and the assignee is Exxon Mobil.

What is interesting is most of the additives are from companies other than Infineum.

The ATF example never showed SHEAR results, only viscosity increases, and the base oil was a mixture of 40% white oils and 29% Mineral oils, and 20% PAO's. Had it been 100% white oil, it might be impressive but it is not.

The antioxidant and VII dosages are high, and not suprising since white oil is not very oxidation resistant as are GroupIII, PAO, and Esters, and have a low Viscosity Index.

Quote:
The results show that the white oil-containing ATF has comparable, and in some instances, lower friction coefficients than the conventional mineral oil ATF.



This is rather strange. Anyone who has formulaed ATF's knows that It's the dynamic friction coefficient that is important.

 

[TARM]

MMO for fuel, not if its to be used in deisel. Not good. It was shown thru cert lab testing to actually reduce fuel lubricity not raise it. It was part of a lubricity study conducted on popular additives used in diesel fuel in an attempt to raise it. MMO was one of a few that actually lowered it. NOT GOOD SO no-go for diesel. Gassers I have no idea.