MKS water pump failure... bummer dude

[14Accent]

Sort of a nothing thread, but it's a failure I don't come across regularly and it caught me a bit off guard.

Good customer of mine had their Lincoln MKS towed in with an overheat condition last week. 3.7 Duratec. The car ran fine, the engine sounded great, and upon inspection I found no sign of a coolant leak despite the reservoir being bone dry. On a whim I pulled the dipstick, knowing the stigma around water pump failures on this engine. Sure enough, the oil was several quarts overfull and looked like chocolate milk...

Sadly, it looks like this one may be destined for the crusher. Used engines are $2.5k, and that's before you spend the money to "freshen" it before installation. All in, it's $7k+ worth of work. Really unfortunate when the rest of the car is in relatively good shape.

 

[WylieCoyote]

Ridiculous design. Glad I got my parents to ditch their CX-9.

 

[97prizm]

With car prices being hyper inflated I don't see junking it as being very reasonable.

 

[14Accent]

With car prices being hyper inflated I don't see junking it as being very reasonable.

I completely agree, the car is 100% worth saving. I don't recall the miles, but they were low 100-ish. Unfortunately, the customer doesn't have the means to repair it.

I'm considering offering them $1k and throwing another $2k into it as a flip. We'll see.

 

[Kuato]

The car ran fine, the engine sounded great, and upon inspection I found no sign of a coolant leak despite the reservoir being bone dry.

Sounds like a water pump job and a couple of oil changes then drive it. Sure, there was some damage done by the milkshake but there's probably a lot of life left in that engine.

 

[mattd]

These engines are extremely tough even with running with coolant in the crankcase for a bit. If it was mine, I’d change the pump, flush the engine out while it’s all apart as best as possible, and do 3-4 short oil changed and see where that gets you. You might be surprised. If it’s not throwing camshaft timing codes or making any noises it’s worth the gamble. JMO

 

[14Accent]

Think so? Looks like a timing set with water pump is about $300 on RA. Mitchell labor is 9.3 hours, I feel that I could shave roughly 30-40% off that easily.

Comps are in the mid-$4k to mid-$7k range. If I can get it back on the road for less than $2k I might consider it.

 

[willbur]

Sounds like a water pump job and a couple of oil changes then drive it. Sure, there was some damage done by the milkshake but there's probably a lot of life left in that engine.

Exactly. Sons Honda Civic si blew a head gasket. Took head off, cylinders were full of oil. Cleaned out all the oil, installed new gaskets, drained and refilled with fresh oil and all was ok for thousands of miles by a teen age kid. Still saw it around town when he went off to college

 

[Chris142]

I completely agree, the car is 100% worth saving. I don't recall the miles, but they were low 100-ish. Unfortunately, the customer doesn't have the means to repair it.

I'm considering offering them $1k and throwing another $2k into it as a flip. We'll see.

Any chance that the engine is ok? You said it sounded fine.

 

[KGMtech]

I would recommend this as a project car. It should be pretty easy to make some profit, albeit your knuckles are going to be raw for a bit after the work.

 

[mattd]

Think so? Looks like a timing set with water pump is about $300 on RA. Mitchell labor is 9.3 hours, I feel that I could shave roughly 30-40% off that easily.

Comps are in the mid-$4k to mid-$7k range. If I can get it back on the road for less than $2k I might consider it.

I would only use an OEM pump in this application and would strongly suggest other OE timing components. It can be done far less labor than that, especially if you don’t drop the engine out the bottom to do the job.

 

[14Accent]

I would recommend this as a project car. It should be pretty easy to make some profit, albeit your knuckles are going to be raw for a bit after the work.

Ha! Knuckles are the least of my worries, should I take the project on.

I would only use an OEM pump in this application and would strongly suggest other OE timing components. It can be done far less labor than that, especially if you don’t drop the engine out the bottom to do the job.

Having done other jobs of this type in the chassis, I see no reason to not drop the subframe and do the work from the comfort of a stool. I have access to a lift, it's not much trouble to disconnect the required electrical and mechanical parts that connect the powertrain from the body. One of the benefits of modern manufacturing techniques.

Way I see it, I'll have the powertrain on jack stands within 2 hours. Another couple hours performing the repair, then the body slides back on like glove.

 

[mattd]

Ha! Knuckles are the least of my worries, should I take the project on.


Having done other jobs of this type in the chassis, I see no reason to not drop the subframe and do the work from the comfort of a stool. I have access to a lift, it's not much trouble to disconnect the required electrical and mechanical parts that connect the powertrain from the body. One of the benefits of modern manufacturing techniques.

Way I see it, I'll have the powertrain on jack stands within 2 hours. Another couple hours performing the repair, then the body slides back on like glove.

You can absolutely do it that way. It’s personal preference. I’ve done it both ways and it’s a bit faster to do it in chassis.

 

[JTK]

Way I see it, I'll have the powertrain on jack stands within 2 hours. Another couple hours performing the repair, then the body slides back on like glove.

What year is it? I wonder if many MN winters and rusted fasteners will make this job a nightmare.

 

[14Accent]

What year is it? I wonder if many MN winters and rusted fasteners will make this job a nightmare.

2010-ish.

 

[D60]

I did an '07 CX-9 with 3.5. The Melling kit from RA had at least one guide with the Ford logo ground off. I used a Motorcraft pump of course.

My only complaint with the Melling chain was the "lone" link was silver and you gotta look in just the right light at the right angle to find it.

On the Mazda chassis at least I just clamped a piece of angle across the subframe with a small spacer block of wood to support the motor, but you'll eventually need to lower it to slide all the motor mount bolts out

It took me way more than 9 hours, but it was my first one and I'm crazy slow

 

[D60]

Also there are plenty of anecdotal accounts of these engines being fine after the milkshake, but who knows how much that's worth on the internet.

It's one thing on your own vehicle or for an optimistic flip, it's another to tell the customer how much the job will cost and it still might be toast.

 

[FowVay]

If you can fix this thing for a few thousand why not fix it for your good customer? If they're strapped for money then this would certainly help them out as opposed to having to take a huge loss and then having nothing to drive.

 

[bullwinkle]

This happened to my cousins a couple weeks ago, their flight to FL got canceled, so they borrowed my other cousin's late '00s Edge (with ~180K miles), made it as far as Lenoir City, TN before it failed spectacularly on I-75, huge cloud of steam, rod through the block. It's still there, they gave it to the garage that they had it towed to. Fatal case of Ford-itis combined with not being car people!

 

[willbur]

Exactly. Sons Honda Civic si blew a head gasket. Took head off, cylinders were full of oil. Cleaned out all the oil, installed new gaskets, drained and refilled with fresh oil and all was ok for thousands of miles by a teen age kid. Still saw it around town when he went off to college

Ment to say cylinders were full of COOLANT, not oil