Micron ratings anywhere?

[steve20]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: sm00thpapa

Amsoil is on their website and the Pure One data was emailed from Purolator. Not to me but to another person who posted the data.


To add ... every Purolator filter box has the filtering specs right on the box.


not for the particular filter you are buying-all of the boxes refer to the most efficient filter rating, not what you are buying

 

[ltslimjim]

While most things are equal between a K&N and a Mobil 1 there are some variations otherwise I doubt they(two different companies) could have the exact same specifications all around be equal to one another and 'made to spec' by Champion Labs. Am I right or wrong?

I believe by-pass valve(setting/range), flow(GPM), and media are different in one of those areas or another between K&N or M1...that or everything is the same(more or less just different ways of getting there slightly) and the K&N has the nut on the back for an extra $1.

ADDED: Look at the videos linked to Youtube above. The media is a different color(this may mean different composition for sake of the conversation), the leaf spring is different as well.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: kemo
Originally Posted By: sayjac

As for M1 and K&N being exactly the same, perhaps in construction, but it been discussed here that the medias may not be identical. Many Purolator made filters look the same inside, but the medias and efficiencies are different.


K&N Rep says that the Mobil 1 filter, filters too well, that is supposed to be a con (somehow). Good to know K&N shares the same thoughts with K&N air filters...


That's a cheap shot, quite frankly, as you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[sm00thpapa]

Sorry but the leaf springs look the same to me. But I may be some what blind. LOL!

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: sm00thpapa
Sorry but the leaf springs look the same to me. But I may be some what blind. LOL!


Pause the video at sections where the front and then the back are visible, have two windows or tabs with each video open paused at the similar part of the video. You can see the difference(I believe the filters in the video are for the same app; cross-ref etc); which would make sense if they by-passed at different PSI relative positions.

Also, corresponding to this, notice the inlet holes behind the ADBV are slightly larger on the K&N, higher flow again perhaps? Gotta really break it down, yo!

PS: I have corrective lenses.

 

[LeakySeals]

Hope this helps. All the same but the packaging.

Mobil 1 Autopsy
http://www.youtube.com/user/kemorc?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/0/3uC1W8wLD7Q

K&N Autopsy
http://www.youtube.com/user/kemorc?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/1/HX8TXNkQ_7A

 

[ltslimjim]

^Posted already in this thread.

 

[sm00thpapa]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Hope this helps. All the same but the packaging.

Mobil 1 Autopsy
http://www.youtube.com/user/kemorc?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/0/3uC1W8wLD7Q

K&N Autopsy
http://www.youtube.com/user/kemorc?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/1/HX8TXNkQ_7A


I already posted this....

 

[sm00thpapa]

OK so in a nutshell they are both good filters but the M1 is for extended drain and the K&N is not or could it be?

 

[sm00thpapa]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: sm00thpapa
Sorry but the leaf springs look the same to me. But I may be some what blind. LOL!


Pause the video at sections where the front and then the back are visible, have two windows or tabs with each video open paused at the similar part of the video. You can see the difference(I believe the filters in the video are for the same app; cross-ref etc); which would make sense if they by-passed at different PSI relative positions.


Dude just did it and paused it back and front and they are identical. LOL!

Also, corresponding to this, notice the inlet holes behind the ADBV are slightly larger on the K&N, higher flow again perhaps? Gotta really break it down, yo!

PS: I have corrective lenses.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: sm00thpapa
Dude just did it and paused it back and front and they are identical. LOL!


You know, I was kidding. I'm not crazy. It's quite funny though how if you stare with the variations of the angles that the light hits, how things can slightly appear 'off'.

Still, I would like to know how K&N is supposed to flow higher than M1 if it is 'exactly' the same. There used to be a general feel that K&N used a slightly different media and quite frankly it's hard to see that with the naked eye. That was the entire point of saying you could see differences in the areas I did. If there were: It'd be microscopic!

Sorry to take you for a ride. I forgot my /sarcasm remarks. Good to have a laugh.

 

[Bruce T]

I can recall a discussion where it was suggested, perhaps by river_rat, that the larger micron rating of the smaller P1 filters might be due to the increased pressure generated in small canisters rather than the use of coarser media. I suspect this is true and the media is identical. In oil analysis performed by Terry Dyson on my 2009 Civic Hybrid, he thought the PureOne PL14610 still filtered better than the Mobil 1 M1-110.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Bruce T
I can recall a discussion where it was suggested, perhaps by river_rat, that the larger micron rating of the smaller P1 filters might be due to the increased pressure generated in small canisters rather than the use of coarser media. I suspect this is true and the media is identical.


Another theory might be that the metal-on-metal seal of the "45 record adapter" style bypass valve used in the smaller Purolator spin-on filters might leak just enough to throw off the 99.9% @ 20 microns to 40 microns instead.

Originally Posted By: Bruce T
In oil analysis performed by Terry Dyson on my 2009 Civic Hybrid, he thought the PureOne PL14610 still filtered better than the Mobil 1 M1-110.


Interesting ...

 

[Bruce T]

Z, that's a new one to me. Do you think this bypass valve design is an accident, or they intentionally created a slight leak for better flow?

Yes, it was based on oil analysis. I asked Terry to compare them by a particle count, but he doesn't think much of the accuracy of these tests.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Bruce T
Z, that's a new one to me. Do you think this bypass valve design is an accident, or they intentionally created a slight leak for better flow?


I think Purolator has used that particular bypass valve design (like on the 14610) for awhile on their 4 smallest filters. Seems that bypass valve design is needed because of the smaller center tube diameter. I'm sure that it is not supposed to leak by design, but from what I've seen by cutting them open, it wouldn't surprise me if they had a little leakage. It wouldn't take much to make the efficiency slightly worse.

 

[Bruce T]

How funny, the bypass valve design might not be intentionally leaky, but it helps the smallest filters flow.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Bruce T
How funny, the bypass valve design might not be intentionally leaky, but it helps the smallest filters flow.


I really don't think the bypass valve in the smaller Purolator filters (the ones with the "45 record" flat spring design) helps the smaller filters to flow any better at all, unless of course it opens up just like any other filter's bypass valve when the media becomes too restrictive.

BUT ... that particular bypass valve design could potentially leak just little bit if the metal-to-metal seal wasn't perfect.

 

[Bruce T]

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[kemo]

Originally Posted By: sm00thpapa
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Hope this helps. All the same but the packaging.

Mobil 1 Autopsy
http://www.youtube.com/user/kemorc?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/0/3uC1W8wLD7Q

K&N Autopsy
http://www.youtube.com/user/kemorc?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/1/HX8TXNkQ_7A


I already posted this....




Glad to see people post my videos.

The filter media looks EXACTLY the same when with the right lighting. Hard to hold a phone still while recording!

I had another video up, but K&N went nuts over it, so I pulled it.

 

[BrandonT]

Is there any lab or org that will compare filtering and flow rate/pressure drop? It just so happens I have to use the P1 14610 on my 370Z, and besides it possibly being different than larger P1's, would like to compare it against the Fram XG. I would love to send someone some samples and see how they test.