Metal Flakes in Oil

[92saturnsl2]

Changed out the GC 0w-30 in my Bonneville today, at only 40% on the OLM which was about 5k. What I saw in the bottom of the pan was startling, especially since it was a new pan, so it had to come from the oil.

If you look in the upper-right hand corner of the image you can get a good representation of what the flakes look like. Keep in mind this picture was taken after I drained the oil catch pan (so only about 1/8" of oil covering the bottom). I didn't see the flakes until I emptied it. Most were tiny specs, some larger that I could make out actual flakes. The oil otherwise looked normal. At first I thought it was copper, but that's probably the oil discoloring an otherwise silver metal.

The car is getting better mileage than it ever has, nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever in performance. I do drive the car hard at times, but nothing that would explain this. Only thing out of the ordinary I did during the OCI was run a can of Seafoam through the intake.

I'm puzzled. Is this a bad sign?

 

[chubbs1]

Not good. Are you losing coolant?

 

[92saturnsl2]

No loss of coolant. Lower intake manifold gasket has already been replaced with the updated aluminum framed one, long before I bought the car.

 

[660mag]

That's an oil filter worth opening if I've ever seen one.

 

[electrolover]

if i had to guess from the pic i would say its the outter layer of the bearings coming off. i dont know why tho...

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: 660mag
That's an oil filter worth opening if I've ever seen one.

+1 The filter is probably your next stop. If you see flakes in the filter, you certainly have a mechanical issue.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
if i had to guess from the pic i would say its the outter layer of the bearings coming off. i dont know why tho...


Would that show up as a loss of oil pressure? Oil pressure on the gauge looks fine.

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted By: electrolover
if i had to guess from the pic i would say its the outter layer of the bearings coming off. i dont know why tho...


Would that show up as a loss of oil pressure? Oil pressure on the gauge looks fine.

Only over time. The bearing wear would have to be sufficiently severe so that the pump could no longer maintain pressure. This doesn't happen right away.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted By: electrolover
if i had to guess from the pic i would say its the outter layer of the bearings coming off. i dont know why tho...


Would that show up as a loss of oil pressure? Oil pressure on the gauge looks fine.

Only over time. The bearing wear would have to be sufficiently severe so that the pump could no longer maintain pressure. This doesn't happen right away.


+1 The other thing is this: Do you have a mechanical OP gauge or a glorified idiot light for a pressure gauge? Typically factory OP gauges alert you to a problem when its too late. They are nothing more than an oil light that looks like a gauge. Cutting open the filter and getting a UOA would be a good idea.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
+1 The other thing is this: Do you have a mechanical OP gauge or a glorified idiot light for a pressure gauge? Typically factory OP gauges alert you to a problem when its too late. They are nothing more than an oil light that looks like a gauge.


It's the OEM electric gauge but not a dummy gauge like you'd find on Fords and many other cars. It reacts to RPM, temperature, and oil viscosity among other things. Presently it's about 35 PSI hot idle, and about 60 PSI above 2k. This car also has a low oil sensor in the pan, so I imagine the gauge isn't just there to tell you when it's too late.

 

[crazyoildude]

this is usually not good Get an oil sample to be sure...check to see if the flakes are magnetic with a magnet and let us know...Dont drive this car or start the engine until you find out for sure!
was this engine red lined or revved up recently?]
What car year and engine?

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
this is usually not good Get an oil sample to be sure...check to see if the flakes are magnetic with a magnet and let us know...Dont drive this car or start the engine until you find out for sure!
was this engine red lined or revved up recently?]
What car year and engine?


The car is my daily driver, so I can't avoid driving it. It's a 2000 Bonneville, L67 3800 S/C. Yes, it sees WOT on a semi-regular basis, but so have a lot of other vehicles I've owned and I've never seen this.

I might run this OCI for 2k, change with with UOA and repeat, just to make sure this isn't a trend that is continuing. Luckily I switched to cheap dino this time around instead of an expensive synthetic. I'll try to cut the filter open in the near future and take a look inside.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
+1 The other thing is this: Do you have a mechanical OP gauge or a glorified idiot light for a pressure gauge? Typically factory OP gauges alert you to a problem when its too late. They are nothing more than an oil light that looks like a gauge.


It's the OEM electric gauge but not a dummy gauge like you'd find on Fords and many other cars. It reacts to RPM, temperature, and oil viscosity among other things. Presently it's about 35 PSI hot idle, and about 60 PSI above 2k. This car also has a low oil sensor in the pan, so I imagine the gauge isn't just there to tell you when it's too late.


That's a plus. I would get the UOA cut the filter open and run a magnet through the metal filings as already mentioned, and get a handle on thing. If it were my car I'd hold off driving until I did what's mentioned here. I'd also pressure test the cooling system to R/O a bad head gasket. Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: 660mag
That's an oil filter worth opening if I've ever seen one.


+2

 

[RegDunlop]

just wondering what filter you wre using?

Did you cut the filter open or otherwise examine it?

How about your air filter and air intake system, is it modded at all?

 

[mechtech2]

Don't count on a magnet to pick up lead from bearings, or copper.
Bright sunlight shows up metal particles in oils - engine and trannys.
It can be horrifying to see, but normal.
Still, if it was mine, I'd check that filter and keep an eye on things.

 

[spasm3]

New oil pan? Any chance the metal came from the threads as the oil pan bolt was screwed in the first time?

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted By: RegDunlop
just wondering what filter you wre using?

Did you cut the filter open or otherwise examine it?

How about your air filter and air intake system, is it modded at all?


Filter was a brand called "Full". It seemed to have OK reviews in one of the latest "oil filter surveys" where one cuts a bunch of filters apart and examines them. Other than that I don't know much about it.

Originally Posted By: spasm3
New oil pan? Any chance the metal came from the threads as the oil pan bolt was screwed in the first time?


Oil pan is original.

FWIW, the car was on jacks, angled in such a way that it forced ALL oil toward the drain hole. Perhaps that moved some sediment to the drain hole that has been there awhile... Can't be sure.

Air filter is a K&N in a stock airbox, installed for about 1K of the 5K OCI. Old air filter was just fine, so I don't see filtration being an issue.

 

[The_Eric]

Definitely check the filter and see if the metal is magnetic. A few previously mentioned possibilities for aluminum. As for steel/iron, I hate to say it but we've got one in the shop right now (2000 Buick LeSabre Ultra/ 3.8 supercharged) with a bad cam and lifter. I'm pretty sure the lifter flaked and killed the cam.

 

[crazyoildude]

that is the point a magnet wont pick up led bearings and if that is the case that its the bearings you will very soon have a very expensive job to be dome maybe you can save the engine and just do bearings or bearings and a crank cut