Metal flakes in oil....normal or doomed? (Pics)

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Do yourself a favor and pull the valve cover. At least you can rule out some stuff and get some peace of mind about part of your engine, or... you might just find the problem.

The last thing I would do is spend time here arguing about cSt. But that's just me.
 
The UOA probably wont be ready until late this week or early next week. Ill post it up when I get the results back.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Again, bumping up to a Xw30 (only a few CST higher) should have no impact whatsoever. Adding a few CST would have zero impact on metal touching metal.


You don't go by cSt. You go by the percentage of how much thicker 5W-30 is than 0W-20 at operating temperature. You'd be surprised by how much of a difference it is. Garak taught be that.


If xW-20 was causing engine wear like this, you'd see a lot more people chiming in with similar threads. If it's actually something going wrong inside the engine, I highly doubt it's from using xW-20 motor oil unless it was some non-API stuff bought at the dollar store and the car is being raced every weekend or pulling a trailer at low RPM at WOT.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If xW-20 was causing engine wear like this, you'd see a lot more people chiming in with similar threads. If it's actually something going wrong inside the engine, I highly doubt it's from using xW-20 motor oil unless it was some non-API stuff bought at the dollar store and the car is being raced every weekend or pulling a trailer at low RPM at WOT.


0W-20 is definitely not helping the situation. 0W-20 and its close cousin 5W-20 are the world's two unnecessary oils. Name me one single engine that actually needs those viscosity grades in order to operate.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If xW-20 was causing engine wear like this, you'd see a lot more people chiming in with similar threads. If it's actually something going wrong inside the engine, I highly doubt it's from using xW-20 motor oil unless it was some non-API stuff bought at the dollar store and the car is being raced every weekend or pulling a trailer at low RPM at WOT.


0W-20 is definitely not helping the situation. 0W-20 and its close cousin 5W-20 are the world's two unnecessary oils. Name me one single engine that actually needs those viscosity grades in order to operate.


Not a matter of "needs in order to operate", but a matter of using a xW-20 specified for the vehicle isn't going to all of a sudden cause it to shed metal starting at 46K+ miles. I've seen factory filled 5W-20 in a 435 HP V8 at the 1st oil change (after break-in at 2500 miles) have nothing even close to the level of particles showed in the OP photos.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Not a matter of "needs in order to operate", but a matter of using a xW-20 specified for the vehicle isn't going to all of a sudden cause it to shed metal starting at 46K+ miles.


It was shedding metal all along since day one. Greg just didn't notice it until recently.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Not a matter of "needs in order to operate", but a matter of using a xW-20 specified for the vehicle isn't going to all of a sudden cause it to shed metal starting at 46K+ miles.


It was shedding metal all along since day one. Greg just didn't notice it until recently.


Where did you get that when he said:
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I have never examined my oil and filter this closely before so I have nothing to compare too.


Since the oil drain pan was used on a different vehicle the day before and wasn't cleaned out, and he cut open the filter with a hacksaw instead of a real oil filter cutter, pretty much throws a couple of big unknowns into the investigation and nobody can flat out say it was caused by the weight of oil used with any evidence to back it up.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Not a matter of "needs in order to operate", but a matter of using a xW-20 specified for the vehicle isn't going to all of a sudden cause it to shed metal starting at 46K+ miles.


It was shedding metal all along since day one. Greg just didn't notice it until recently.


Where did you get that when he said:
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I have never examined my oil and filter this closely before so I have nothing to compare too.


Since the oil drain pan was used on a different vehicle the day before and wasn't cleaned out, and he cut open the filter with a hacksaw instead of a real oil filter cutter, pretty much throws a couple of big unknowns into the investigation and nobody can flat out say it was caused by the weight of oil used with any evidence to back it up.


Exactly. I am not going to worry too much at this point. Too many unknowns.
 
ZeeOSix, what are you doing out of the filter forum anyway ?
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Being that you're running 0W-20, metal flakes don't surprise me. No car in the world actually needs 0W-20.


That's just plain silly.
 
Originally Posted By: DirtyMoe21
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Being that you're running 0W-20, metal flakes don't surprise me. No car in the world actually needs 0W-20.


That's just plain silly.


Anything Merk posts makes me shake my head
 
Originally Posted By: DirtyMoe21
That's just plain silly.


Does that Honda engine actually need a 0W-20 in order to operate ? Think about it.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: DirtyMoe21
That's just plain silly.


Does that Honda engine actually need a 0W-20 in order to operate ? Think about it.


Is there ANY grade of oil that a suitable substitute can't be found for?

A pointless line of argument. You could ask that about any grade. It's just begging the question.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Is there ANY grade of oil that a suitable substitute can't be found for?

A pointless line of argument. You could ask that about any grade. It's just begging the question.


If that's the case, then why 0W-20 ? Are you saying 30 weight won't fit ? Too thick to circulate ?
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I give it 90% that it's going to look fine. Not fine as in "no worry about engine wear", but fine because these $20 UOAs are useless for determining such things. That's why they always come out "fine".


Sorry but I cannot agree. "Useless"? Nope. A UOA will show the amount of wear metals in the sample, flakes or no. If the sample is (for example) 10x the universal average for that engine and distance, it would indicate a probable issue. If in line with other samples, not so much.

You are correct however in the thought that a single UOA cannot show a trend in the same engine; multiple samples over time are needed.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Has anyone seen these type of specs in your oil before? If it's a normal occurrence I wont be as concerned.


Yeah- I've seen it many times, even with 3k oci. Some times more, sometimes less. Never had an engine problem. I don't worry about it anymore (shrug.)
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: DirtyMoe21
That's just plain silly.


Does that Honda engine actually need a 0W-20 in order to operate ? Think about it.



A Honda could run on anything, everyone knows that. But the bold claim of "you're running 0W-20, metal flakes don't surprise me" is just nonsensical. Several on here run 0w-20 oils and for extended drains and they post up top notch UOA's. Most of those engines are over 100k.
 
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