Mercedes Benz Low SAPS spec

Messages
121
Location
Virginia
I am researching motor oils to use our new Benz. Mercedes spec is MB 229.51 low SAPS oil. The only oil I can find locally is Pennzoil Euro L. Our local stores don't carry any Mobil 1 with that spec and the MB dealership is over an hour a way. I plan on changing my own oil. I'm a huge Kendall GT-1 Full Syn fan, so I've been looking for the Euro Plus but so far no luck. While browsing the Kendall site I noticed something strange. It's my understanding that low SAPS refers to low sulfated ash / phosphorous and sulfur. According to the Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium (regular SN syn) Product Data Sheet, this oil has less SAPS than their MB spec'd Euro+. If MB wants me to use a low SAPS oil, wouldn't it behoove me to use the one with the least amount? The low SAPS is for the particulate filter this engine apparently has. It's a gas turbo GDI 2.0. The Euro+ carries the MB 229.51 approval and the GT-1 does not. Thoughts? Kendall Euro + Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 1.1 Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 10 Phosphorus, wt % 0.958 Zinc, wt % 0.1051 Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 1.02 Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 8.6 Phosphorus, wt % 0.077 Titanium, wt % 0.01 Zinc, wt % 0.085
 
Messages
7,451
Location
The Midwest
Originally Posted by edwardh1
toyotas seem to run a very long time on a variety of oils. why are not German cars easy with oils like that?
Because the German auto makers were the ones that first pushed long OCI's and on top of that, have engines that put out more HP per liter than Toyota does. In reality, Toyota probably has the least powerful per liter engine lineup of any auto makers offerings in the USA.
 
Messages
3,838
Location
Slovenia EU
Exactly smile But if I want to buy best diesel low saps oil for my Yaris....let it be VW 504/507 then (tnx to BITOG!!!) wink
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,298
Location
WY
Order Ravenol from Blauparts right now for 13% off. They have multiple oils that meet that spec. If it's important to you, get the German branded recipes and synthetic means Gr.IV/V as opposed to the Gr.III offered up by non-German labeled synthetics. If it isn't important then I'm sure Walmart has the oil for you in their store somewhere. Pennzoil used to offer a great Euro low saps. Went the way of the dinosaur.
 
Last edited:
Messages
5,286
Location
Paramount, California
Originally Posted by RamAir5
I am researching motor oils to use our new Benz. Mercedes spec is MB 229.51 low SAPS oil. The only oil I can find locally is Pennzoil Euro L. Our local stores don't carry any Mobil 1 with that spec and the MB dealership is over an hour a way. I plan on changing my own oil. I'm a huge Kendall GT-1 Full Syn fan, so I've been looking for the Euro Plus but so far no luck. While browsing the Kendall site I noticed something strange. It's my understanding that low SAPS refers to low sulfated ash / phosphorous and sulfur. According to the Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium (regular SN syn) Product Data Sheet, this oil has less SAPS than their MB spec'd Euro+. If MB wants me to use a low SAPS oil, wouldn't it behoove me to use the one with the least amount? The low SAPS is for the particulate filter this engine apparently has. It's a gas turbo GDI 2.0. The Euro+ carries the MB 229.51 approval and the GT-1 does not. Thoughts? Kendall Euro + Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 1.1 Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 10 Phosphorus, wt % 0.958 Zinc, wt % 0.1051 Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 1.02 Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 8.6 Phosphorus, wt % 0.077 Titanium, wt % 0.01 Zinc, wt % 0.085
You posted the wrong specs, which caused an uproar against Kendall, who make great yet very affordable oils. Kendall GT-1 Euro is full-SAPS ACEA A3/B4: 1.1% SA Kendall GT-1 Euro+ is mid-SAPS ACEA C3: 0.8% SA Low-SAPS oils have SA at 0.5% or less and are very rare. Mid-SAPS oils have SA between 0.6% and 0.8%. Full-SAPS oils have SA between 1.0% and 1.6%. Kendall GT-1 Euro+ (ACEA C3) is a great oil. It has the VW 504.00 spec that has an engine test for intake-valve deposits in GDI engines. Get it if you can! https://www.kendallmotoroil.com/products/motor-oil
 
Messages
11,216
Location
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted by edwardh1
toyotas seem to run a very long time on a variety of oils. why are not German cars easy with oils like that?
Because Toyota does not bring complex engines to the US. However, in Europe, they use oils in same category. Also, German cars are not piece of an appliance.
 
Messages
11,216
Location
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted by RamAir5
I am researching motor oils to use our new Benz. Mercedes spec is MB 229.51 low SAPS oil. The only oil I can find locally is Pennzoil Euro L. Our local stores don't carry any Mobil 1 with that spec and the MB dealership is over an hour a way. I plan on changing my own oil. I'm a huge Kendall GT-1 Full Syn fan, so I've been looking for the Euro Plus but so far no luck. While browsing the Kendall site I noticed something strange. It's my understanding that low SAPS refers to low sulfated ash / phosphorous and sulfur. According to the Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium (regular SN syn) Product Data Sheet, this oil has less SAPS than their MB spec'd Euro+. If MB wants me to use a low SAPS oil, wouldn't it behoove me to use the one with the least amount? The low SAPS is for the particulate filter this engine apparently has. It's a gas turbo GDI 2.0. The Euro+ carries the MB 229.51 approval and the GT-1 does not. Thoughts? Kendall Euro + Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 1.1 Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 10 Phosphorus, wt % 0.958 Zinc, wt % 0.1051 Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 1.02 Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 8.6 Phosphorus, wt % 0.077 Titanium, wt % 0.01 Zinc, wt % 0.085
Your car is equipped with GPF? Pennzoil Euro L is better choice than Kendall. Also, Valvoline 5W40 MST is approved for MB 229.51. I used Valvoline in BMW X5 35d for some time and it is great oil.
 
Messages
5,286
Location
Paramount, California
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by RamAir5
I am researching motor oils to use our new Benz. Mercedes spec is MB 229.51 low SAPS oil. The only oil I can find locally is Pennzoil Euro L. Our local stores don't carry any Mobil 1 with that spec and the MB dealership is over an hour a way. I plan on changing my own oil. I'm a huge Kendall GT-1 Full Syn fan, so I've been looking for the Euro Plus but so far no luck. While browsing the Kendall site I noticed something strange. It's my understanding that low SAPS refers to low sulfated ash / phosphorous and sulfur. According to the Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium (regular SN syn) Product Data Sheet, this oil has less SAPS than their MB spec'd Euro+. If MB wants me to use a low SAPS oil, wouldn't it behoove me to use the one with the least amount? The low SAPS is for the particulate filter this engine apparently has. It's a gas turbo GDI 2.0. The Euro+ carries the MB 229.51 approval and the GT-1 does not. Thoughts? Kendall Euro + Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 1.1 Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 10 Phosphorus, wt % 0.958 Zinc, wt % 0.1051 Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 1.02 Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 8.6 Phosphorus, wt % 0.077 Titanium, wt % 0.01 Zinc, wt % 0.085
You posted the wrong specs, which caused an uproar against Kendall, who make great yet very affordable oils. Kendall GT-1 Euro is full-SAPS ACEA A3/B4: 1.1% SA Kendall GT-1 Euro+ is mid-SAPS ACEA C3: 0.8% SA Low-SAPS oils have SA at 0.5% or less and are very rare. Mid-SAPS oils have SA between 0.6% and 0.8%. Full-SAPS oils have SA between 1.0% and 1.6%. Kendall GT-1 Euro+ (ACEA C3) is a great oil. It has the VW 504.00 spec that has an engine test for intake-valve deposits in GDI engines. Get it if you can! https://www.kendallmotoroil.com/products/motor-oil
I see that the Web site has the wrong specs. You can find the correct specs in the PDS: https://s3.amazonaws.com/phillips66...322f6b73/original/GT-1%20Euro%20Plus.pdf This is the MSDS: Kendall GT-1 Euro+ MSDS It is 55/25 Group III/PAO, meaning the base oil is about 1/3 PAO. I estimated its base-oil viscosity at 150 °C to be 2.9 cP, which is excellent. It has only a small amount of VII (VI = 164). Pennzoil Euro L doesn't have any PAO. The problem with it is that it's loaded in VII (VI = 189 is very high for a 5W-30) and its base oil is a lot thinner (~ 2.3 cP or less at 150 °C). That's because it's a GTL-based oil and Shell doesn't make thick GTL base stocks in Qatar; therefore, GTL-based Euro oils may need to rely on a heavier dose of VIIs to have the viscosity thick enough for the European specs. That could increase the wear and deposits in comparison to oils using less VII to meet the same specs. The M1 ESP Formula 5W-30 with ester (base-oil viscosity at 150 °C ~ 2.7 cP) and Kendall Euro+ are much better choices than the Pennzoil Euro L. Kendall GT-1 Euro+ is an excellent oil overall -- it has a thick base oil with PAO and little VII content. I know some people can get it very cheap but the availability seems scarce.
 
Top