Mazda specifically says NOT to use synthetics in this engine. They are now recalling ALL of these motors in their "White Glove Service" program and inspecting/replacing all engines that are leaking/consuming more than normal oil out of their own pocket.
Mazda RX8 oil sample nine
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Ok then why do they use Motorcraft synblend at the dealer??????????
Mazda said no to synthetics b/c of an old test that determined that ONE brand created too much ash deposits. This was back in the 70's, early 80's. Oil has changed since then...
Apparently, in Europe, Mazda is recommending synthetic Elf oil.
Mazdaspeed oil used to be rebottled Neo oil, definately synthetic...
zoom zoom....
Mazda said no to synthetics b/c of an old test that determined that ONE brand created too much ash deposits. This was back in the 70's, early 80's. Oil has changed since then...
Apparently, in Europe, Mazda is recommending synthetic Elf oil.
Mazdaspeed oil used to be rebottled Neo oil, definately synthetic...
zoom zoom....
and probably mostly grp V
If putting links up is wrong on this board, let me know and I'll take these down:
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/822
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/822
Recall is bogus. Mazda ran the oil:fuel ratio too lean killing the Rx8 engine. Had nothing to do with the oil type and it never has! Lean oil ratio for reduced emissions saves the enviroment and kills the rotary.
Make sure that the vehicle has the latest ECU reflash and live with it. Fuel dilution is normal in a rotary. This is why cheap oil and FREQUENT OCI's are a must.
Rotaries also starve for oil when cold to reduce cold start emissions and speed the warm up. This is caused by the e-shaft thermostatic pellet. The solution was either to use a pre 85(?) eshaft during the rebuild or install an aftermarket pellet that is machined to mimic an open thermostat. I believe that the thermopellets are compatible with the Renesis. If so, get one.
The easiest way to control the fuel dilution is to change the oil more frequently. You can only go so lean in a rotary before it pings itself to death. Rx8 is pretty high compression. Too lean will lead to overly high exhaust temps and emissions failing. If emissions isn't something you care about, lean 'er out!
Another option is an oil bypass filter with a heater/vent. Premo-plus and Puradyn have 'heated' oil bypass filters that evaporate moisture and fuel. They aren't cheap.
From what I remember, Idemitsu, and not Neo, provided that racing rotary synthetic oil.
The real reason for Mazda not wanting a synthetic---is because a certain big oil company pulled financial sponsorship for Mazda rotary racing vehicles and race classes. If you dig deep into the history of rotary engines in racing, you'll find the 'offense' made and the aggressive anti-synthetic retaliation since then.
IMO, carbon buildup is caused by running pig rich. Thats the nature of the beast. Frequent FI cleaners, full bottle used every 3k, will help control buildup. If you're ambitious, per tank treatment with a cleaning/lube should be considered. Water injection might even be an option to consider if you lean out too much.
A mild oil dose(UCL, 2-stroke) will also provide the lubrication the seals need that isn't supplied by the overly lean stock oil:fuel ratio. Since the vehicle must still meet emissions, I'd bet that even the latest reflash which added more oil, is still relatively lean.
I also don't know why that an oil injected engine isn't consuming more oil between OCIs. It should be and you should be topping it off regularly!
Iron is most likely coming from the pump, chain, rotor gears, stationary gears, rotors, and the e-shaft. Thicker oil might protect them better. You should give a 5w30 a few runs. Iron components starved of oil flow/PSI when cold should shed less with an aftermarket thermo-pellet.
Chromium has me worried. Since, Mazda uses lots of wear coatings in the wankel. Something is wearing out and its increasing. Check to see if the rotor housings are still chrome-ish plated. This means that the apex seals are wearing out the aluminum housings. Normally high rotary blowby is adding the housing's plate material into your oil. I'd also wager that some of the initial Si is from coatings used on the 'irons'.
Practice more frequent oil changes. A 3k regimen should be considered.
If you're looking for a clean oil, look at the VW 507/504 and BMW SLX-LL04 specs. You might need to hang out at other forums to find the brands/weights available with those OEM specs.
Make sure that the vehicle has the latest ECU reflash and live with it. Fuel dilution is normal in a rotary. This is why cheap oil and FREQUENT OCI's are a must.
Rotaries also starve for oil when cold to reduce cold start emissions and speed the warm up. This is caused by the e-shaft thermostatic pellet. The solution was either to use a pre 85(?) eshaft during the rebuild or install an aftermarket pellet that is machined to mimic an open thermostat. I believe that the thermopellets are compatible with the Renesis. If so, get one.
The easiest way to control the fuel dilution is to change the oil more frequently. You can only go so lean in a rotary before it pings itself to death. Rx8 is pretty high compression. Too lean will lead to overly high exhaust temps and emissions failing. If emissions isn't something you care about, lean 'er out!
Another option is an oil bypass filter with a heater/vent. Premo-plus and Puradyn have 'heated' oil bypass filters that evaporate moisture and fuel. They aren't cheap.
From what I remember, Idemitsu, and not Neo, provided that racing rotary synthetic oil.
The real reason for Mazda not wanting a synthetic---is because a certain big oil company pulled financial sponsorship for Mazda rotary racing vehicles and race classes. If you dig deep into the history of rotary engines in racing, you'll find the 'offense' made and the aggressive anti-synthetic retaliation since then.
IMO, carbon buildup is caused by running pig rich. Thats the nature of the beast. Frequent FI cleaners, full bottle used every 3k, will help control buildup. If you're ambitious, per tank treatment with a cleaning/lube should be considered. Water injection might even be an option to consider if you lean out too much.
A mild oil dose(UCL, 2-stroke) will also provide the lubrication the seals need that isn't supplied by the overly lean stock oil:fuel ratio. Since the vehicle must still meet emissions, I'd bet that even the latest reflash which added more oil, is still relatively lean.
I also don't know why that an oil injected engine isn't consuming more oil between OCIs. It should be and you should be topping it off regularly!
Iron is most likely coming from the pump, chain, rotor gears, stationary gears, rotors, and the e-shaft. Thicker oil might protect them better. You should give a 5w30 a few runs. Iron components starved of oil flow/PSI when cold should shed less with an aftermarket thermo-pellet.
Chromium has me worried. Since, Mazda uses lots of wear coatings in the wankel. Something is wearing out and its increasing. Check to see if the rotor housings are still chrome-ish plated. This means that the apex seals are wearing out the aluminum housings. Normally high rotary blowby is adding the housing's plate material into your oil. I'd also wager that some of the initial Si is from coatings used on the 'irons'.
Practice more frequent oil changes. A 3k regimen should be considered.
If you're looking for a clean oil, look at the VW 507/504 and BMW SLX-LL04 specs. You might need to hang out at other forums to find the brands/weights available with those OEM specs.
Good info, thanks! I'm starting a 3k cycle and will stay at that until things look better.
Vince
Vince
The first thing I would do it switch Brands of oil and go to a 40 weight oil. My guess is you will see improvement. Fuel issue needs to be solved for great results. You are in Calif. Use a 40 weight that won't thin out like 15w40 Delo. Don't believe your RX8 likes Redline at all.
rotary engines are fascinating, but man this thing is spitting out the metal.
when I was much younger I briefly owned a 3rd gen twin turbo RX-7. I was told not to run synthetic in it -- something about the wankel burns oil, and syn leaves residue behind when it burns
I never bought that line of bull. sadly, I never had a chance to change the oil....
(here's my own custom "crushed car" instant gremlin)...
when I was much younger I briefly owned a 3rd gen twin turbo RX-7. I was told not to run synthetic in it -- something about the wankel burns oil, and syn leaves residue behind when it burns
(here's my own custom "crushed car" instant gremlin)...
You need to contact Redline asap and see what they have to say, tell them to get one of there chemist over here now and have a look see....
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