No doubt. Comparing a future car to a production car is ridiculous!
Mazda 3- Best bang for the buck
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I'm on my second Mazda. My first was a Mazda Protege (1.6 ltr) and my current car being a Mazda 626 ES-V6. Both have proven to be reliable, comfortable, and a pleasant departure from the masses in civics, accords, camrys, and corollas.
If i needed to buy another new car right now, the Mazda3 would be at or very near the top of my list. However my 5 year old Mazda still looks, runs and drives like new. The only thing i've had done outside of normal maintenece is having the sway bar bushings replaced under warranty. They made a slight squeek and the dealer replaced them without question.
At 5 years and 50k miles i thought i should replace the front pads. However the orig ones on there still look new.
If i needed to buy another new car right now, the Mazda3 would be at or very near the top of my list. However my 5 year old Mazda still looks, runs and drives like new. The only thing i've had done outside of normal maintenece is having the sway bar bushings replaced under warranty. They made a slight squeek and the dealer replaced them without question.
At 5 years and 50k miles i thought i should replace the front pads. However the orig ones on there still look new.
I haven't heard anything serious about the Mazda3, other than reading about various problems on various forums, sorta like some most were great but some don't work quite right. Of course, I've read reports of the ocassional Corolla getting mid 20s MPG instead of the norm 35+ on the highway.
I was close to buying one (instead of my 05 Corolla S) but nearly every one on the local lot was maxed out with options pushing the price very high. I wasn't terribly impressed with the smaller engine, but the larger 4 cylinder was enjoyable. I couldn't bring myself to pay $18.5K to over $20K at the time for things that amounted to flash (every single one had the sunroof, for example), so I went practical.
I sometimes wonder if I should have gotten the Mazda, but I really like the Corolla as well. The worst thing for me is the transmission, it isn't fun to use at all. I took a Scion tC for a drive, it reminded me of how wonderful a clutch and shifter can be, like the Mazda3 was.
I don't know what 'bang for the buck' means technically, but I'd probably spend $3-5K less (assuming the more expensive load-outs) and get the Corolla again. It looks like you can get a comparably equipped Mazda3 i Touring for about $16K, which I'd probably call a compromise.
[ July 05, 2006, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: GarrettSocling ]
I was close to buying one (instead of my 05 Corolla S) but nearly every one on the local lot was maxed out with options pushing the price very high. I wasn't terribly impressed with the smaller engine, but the larger 4 cylinder was enjoyable. I couldn't bring myself to pay $18.5K to over $20K at the time for things that amounted to flash (every single one had the sunroof, for example), so I went practical.
I sometimes wonder if I should have gotten the Mazda, but I really like the Corolla as well. The worst thing for me is the transmission, it isn't fun to use at all. I took a Scion tC for a drive, it reminded me of how wonderful a clutch and shifter can be, like the Mazda3 was.
I don't know what 'bang for the buck' means technically, but I'd probably spend $3-5K less (assuming the more expensive load-outs) and get the Corolla again. It looks like you can get a comparably equipped Mazda3 i Touring for about $16K, which I'd probably call a compromise.
[ July 05, 2006, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: GarrettSocling ]
sounds like you are looking for a Toyota Corolla, JHM! I know like mine a lot...and hopefully will love it that much more after a hundred thousand miles or so...
JHZR2
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Fortunately Im not in the market... my father's 91 corolla was the worst car he's owned since his 73 nova... shocks, radiator, battery all no good between 50-80k miles of highway driving!
His toyota previa has been awesome... so it probably was just teething issues - I remember the OE radiator on his Toyota branded corolla had GM stampings on it (not that Ive had any issues with my GM products, but thats another story).
Anyway, I love my 04 saab 9-3. If I need a real commuter car, the corolla would be hard to beat, but I'm really hoping for a diesel honda fit (good luck) - I think thats the best commuter car out there... and 8.7 0-60 for it in current form (per C&D), wont be much less of a drive than the mazda 3... while getting 33 MPG city! I dont need to get 0.87g on a skidpad - Ill get a real performance car if I want performance!
Thanks for the insight on your corolla though... Im glad you like it a lot - what year is yours? Does it have 130hp in the 1.8 engine?
JMH
His toyota previa has been awesome... so it probably was just teething issues - I remember the OE radiator on his Toyota branded corolla had GM stampings on it (not that Ive had any issues with my GM products, but thats another story).
Anyway, I love my 04 saab 9-3. If I need a real commuter car, the corolla would be hard to beat, but I'm really hoping for a diesel honda fit (good luck) - I think thats the best commuter car out there... and 8.7 0-60 for it in current form (per C&D), wont be much less of a drive than the mazda 3... while getting 33 MPG city! I dont need to get 0.87g on a skidpad - Ill get a real performance car if I want performance!
Thanks for the insight on your corolla though... Im glad you like it a lot - what year is yours? Does it have 130hp in the 1.8 engine?
JMH
The Mazda 3 is for people who have the ability to appreciate good driving dynamic and surprising performance from an 'economy' car. If you don't care for this and would rather the simplest point a to point b appliance, look at corolla, accent, kia etc.
this is going to be one serious sport compact! Did you know they limited the torque output in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear to reduce wheelspin? (it has an LSD as well
JHZR2
Staff member
the problem is that the terms are mutually exclusive... a "performance oriented" economy car is neither 'performance' or economical. Good driving dynamic, OK, but they certainly can do a better job with the economy of their entire line of 'economy' cars, anywyay.
I really cant grasp the concept of wanting something that really does nothing important, well - and only handles decently - which has its effects on those $$ tires, etc.
Something like the Mazdaspeed 3 is a different animal... if it actually has some specs behind it besides "oooh, I have 2.3 and 160 hp, I am REALLY sporty", then that is neat. But to have a plain jane commodity economy car that is not a sizable car, is not a muscle car, is not a sports car, and claim that its fame is 'performance oriented' driving just doesnt make sense, IMO.
Id venture to guess that you can get 90% of the 'performance' traits in a $14k honda fit with 109 hp and 33/38 MPG ratings. And Im not eventhe biggest fan of that car!
JMH
I really cant grasp the concept of wanting something that really does nothing important, well - and only handles decently - which has its effects on those $$ tires, etc.
Something like the Mazdaspeed 3 is a different animal... if it actually has some specs behind it besides "oooh, I have 2.3 and 160 hp, I am REALLY sporty", then that is neat. But to have a plain jane commodity economy car that is not a sizable car, is not a muscle car, is not a sports car, and claim that its fame is 'performance oriented' driving just doesnt make sense, IMO.
Id venture to guess that you can get 90% of the 'performance' traits in a $14k honda fit with 109 hp and 33/38 MPG ratings. And Im not eventhe biggest fan of that car!
JMH
I must admit, as boring as the corollas have been in the past, the newer ones have come a long way in the "fun to own" category. I think i might choose a new corolla over a new civic.
Toyota has also hit a home-run out of the park with the Scion TC. For the younger single crowd it's also an excellent value AND a fun car.
To ZHR2, you need to compare apples to oranges. The turbo Saab's do get great mileage given performance but also cost at least $8-10k more than most similarly equipped "economy cars" at similar prices(discounts).
You will not see an $8-10k savings over a 10 year lifetime with fuel and resale as a % is typically better on most small economy cars.
You will not see an $8-10k savings over a 10 year lifetime with fuel and resale as a % is typically better on most small economy cars.
JHZR2
Staff member
I wasnt caring to compare apples to apples, as I stated, to each their own (and still getting 30-34 MPG in stop and go traffic isnt ideal conditions). I was stating what I found to be the best choice for me. Just like 1sttruck states his findings and reason to buy a diesel pickup instead of a benchseat car - and his related operating efficiencies. BTW - I paid $23k for my 04 9-3, brand new - what has been stated in this thread is that $17k or so is about right for a similarly equipped Mazda 3. Heck, Ive heard of lesser equipped corollas and civics hitting $20k.
But espcially in apples to apples, lifecycle cost of the '3' is, IMO, poor. In the contrary, what seems to be a good performer - the mazdaspeed 3 sounds like it wilbe a good deal - if it isnt 'styled' too boy racerish.
If I wanted an economy car, I personally would have bought one. I didnt want one at that point, I wanted a bigger car with economy - and thats what I got. At this point, if I wanted to buy an economy car to augment my fleet - because I have 12 mile commutes on local roads instead of 35 mile commutes on bad interstates, the mazda 3 is NOT what Id be buying for lifecycle cost. How much do those 17" tires each cost?
But as I said, to each their own...
JMH
JHZR2
Staff member
Care to validate that claim??? I searched tirerack:
Tirerack
The OE fit RS-A tires sell for $158 each (in H-speed rated version). There is one Sumitomo summer tire that sells for $60 each, one summer tire for $72, and then one kumho all season for $90.
Your first name brand (Yokohama summer tires) cost $93. Given its an economy car, most wont want to buy seperate summer and snow tires (RS-A are all season tires, and are OE). The cheapest all season tire is $90 per (kumho), and the cheapest traditional name brand all season tire is $104 each, for the pirelli P6.
Lets not forget at least $15 in shipping per tire, and $15 for mounting and balancing. Even if you go to a local tire shop, those costs are included in the tire price.
So, where exactly can you get non-sumitomo/kumho tires, i.e. name brand like are OE, installed onto the car for less than $100 each??? Or, back to basics... even the cheapest non all season tires that you could possibly put on will be $90+tax... youre still at almost $100 per tire, bargain basement. economy??? whats that???
Last I chaecked, most people buy economy cars because they want economical transport - $400 for a half decent set of tires isnt what Id consider to be economical.
JMH
Tirerack
The OE fit RS-A tires sell for $158 each (in H-speed rated version). There is one Sumitomo summer tire that sells for $60 each, one summer tire for $72, and then one kumho all season for $90.
Your first name brand (Yokohama summer tires) cost $93. Given its an economy car, most wont want to buy seperate summer and snow tires (RS-A are all season tires, and are OE). The cheapest all season tire is $90 per (kumho), and the cheapest traditional name brand all season tire is $104 each, for the pirelli P6.
Lets not forget at least $15 in shipping per tire, and $15 for mounting and balancing. Even if you go to a local tire shop, those costs are included in the tire price.
So, where exactly can you get non-sumitomo/kumho tires, i.e. name brand like are OE, installed onto the car for less than $100 each??? Or, back to basics... even the cheapest non all season tires that you could possibly put on will be $90+tax... youre still at almost $100 per tire, bargain basement. economy??? whats that???
Last I chaecked, most people buy economy cars because they want economical transport - $400 for a half decent set of tires isnt what Id consider to be economical.
JMH
JHZR2
Staff member
Fine to have that opinion...
We keep all of our cars well over 100k - foreign and domestic, so resale is a non-issue - extracted value is our metric, and any cars were done with have no real life left in them...
Repairs? We shall see... So far all the PM and similar equipment that Ive specced out is similarly priced to our other Japanese made cars, so Im not really concerned there moreso than if I bought a Mazda, Toyota, Subaru, etc. Sure, a major issue will be $$$$, but it would regardless of if it was a Mercedes or Mazda, Honda or Hyundai.
Cars are too big an investment for one to not be happy and have it fit ALL of ones' needs. I have said this multiple timesin MANY threads. IMO there is no superior value to be found in the supposed 'performance oriented' setup of the mazda 3. If you do find such value and like the car, great! As I said before, I wasnt that keen on the interior of the 2005 model I was in (my rental 06 focus actually seems nicer!), especially compared to the protege 5 that my fiancee almost bought before deciding to go to grad school in the inner city.
As always, YMMV. We can all have our opinions - and can voice them. I learn from many, maybe some will understand my point of view as well.
JMH
Mazda3 looks like where all the other compacts will be when they've rolled out their next generation. New Civic 4 door - bigger , faster. Next Sentra - bigger, faster Euro Megane Renault. Next Focus will likely pickup the Mazda 3, VolvoS40 bigger faster body it uses in Europe. They're all aimed at getting more $$ for their compact than entry level too by meeting more of car customers wants.
Entry level will be left to old Focus as long as Ford keeps it, new Nissan Versa ,Honda Fit, Toyota Yuri and Korean entry cars.
Entry level will be left to old Focus as long as Ford keeps it, new Nissan Versa ,Honda Fit, Toyota Yuri and Korean entry cars.
Mazda3 looks like where all the other compacts will be when they've rolled out their next generation. New Civic 4 door - bigger , faster. Next Sentra - bigger, faster Euro Megane Renault. Next Focus will likely pickup the Mazda 3, VolvoS40 bigger faster body it uses in Europe. They're all aimed at getting more $$ for their compact than entry level too by meeting more of car customers wants.
Entry level will be left to old Focus as long as Ford keeps it, new Nissan Versa ,Honda Fit, Toyota Yuri and Korean entry cars.
Entry level will be left to old Focus as long as Ford keeps it, new Nissan Versa ,Honda Fit, Toyota Yuri and Korean entry cars.
JHZR2
Staff member
If what youre saying is true, then we're going to have a new car type:
-compact entry level econo cars
-midsize econo cars (as the civics and 3s and whatnot grow)
-midsize standard cars (camry/accord, etc)
-large cars
-the rest (coupes, convertibles, luxury cars, "upscale econo cars" like the acura TSX Volvo S40 and Saab 9-3, etc.)
So either a whole lot new or a whole lot of the same rebadged worse than ever, a la Cadillac Cimmaron!
JMH
True "economy" cars aren't ones that are bought at a dealership.
I testdrove the 3 with the 2.3 engine and manual tranny a few months ago, and while I agree, it's got a lot going for it (good looks, decent powerplant and manual tranny, nicely tuned chassis), there wasn't anything in particular that would make me go crazy over it and fork out the $20K+ for a well-equipped one.
Despite having a nice interior, it still has that thin economy feel to it (compare to a Jetta, which has a much nicer interior IMO). And the acceleration just didn't impress me at all. Handling was pretty good though.
Personally, I think I'd get bored of it rather quickly. I'd rather buy a used E46 for around $20-25K than a new Mazda 3. But again, different people have different needs or even likes/dislikes. I can see where the Mazda 3 would offer a very attractive alternative to a typical Civic or Corolla buyer.
Despite having a nice interior, it still has that thin economy feel to it (compare to a Jetta, which has a much nicer interior IMO). And the acceleration just didn't impress me at all. Handling was pretty good though.
Personally, I think I'd get bored of it rather quickly. I'd rather buy a used E46 for around $20-25K than a new Mazda 3. But again, different people have different needs or even likes/dislikes. I can see where the Mazda 3 would offer a very attractive alternative to a typical Civic or Corolla buyer.
I owned a 2000 Protege, which was the predecessor of this car. I got it because it was made in Japan. When sold last August, it was flawless after 75k of fairly spirited driving. Manual tranny. Amsoil 0w30 and their gear oil in it from 25k till I sold it. I would say the made-in-Japan 3 is probably just as good if not WAY better.
I miss driving it now that I've got the auto '01 Civic, or "I get great mileage but am no fun to drive, yet I'm reliable as the tides."
I miss driving it now that I've got the auto '01 Civic, or "I get great mileage but am no fun to drive, yet I'm reliable as the tides."
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