Matrix Transmission Service

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Reginald

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South Carolina, U.S.
My wife's '08 Matrix has 10,000 miles. Yesterday, I used the Liqui-Vac to do a drain-and-refill (suck-and-refill?) on the transmission. The Liqui-Vac removed a tad more than 3 quarts of fluid. If I understand the manual correctly, draining the transmission from the drain plug would remove something like 3.5 or 3.6 quarts, so I was satisfied with the results from the vacuum. Naturally, I refilled the transmission with Toyota T-IV.

Would repeating this routine every 10,000 miles be overkill? Toyota says that the transmission fluid doesn't need to be replaced under "normal conditions." That strikes me as lunacy, especially since T-IV, as far as I know, is not a synthetic fluid. We want this car to last a long, long time, but I don't like wasting money or resources, either.

So is a suck-and-refill with genuine T-IV every 10,000 miles too much? Too little? About right?

Thank you.
 
nope. You can do suck-n-refill to your heart's content so long as you (a) use the correct fluid type and (b) make sure you top it up to the proper level.

Q.

p.s. I wouldn't change out any A/T fluid in my wifey's 04 camry until it hits 80,000kms, will go for Castrol Multi-vehicle ATF this time. On the other hand: I would change out M/T fluid more frequently than spec'ed in my Honda.
 
Originally Posted By: Reginald
My wife's '08 Matrix has 10,000 miles. Yesterday, I used the Liqui-Vac to do a drain-and-refill (suck-and-refill?) on the transmission. The Liqui-Vac removed a tad more than 3 quarts of fluid. If I understand the manual correctly, draining the transmission from the drain plug would remove something like 3.5 or 3.6 quarts, so I was satisfied with the results from the vacuum. Naturally, I refilled the transmission with Toyota T-IV.

Would repeating this routine every 10,000 miles be overkill? Toyota says that the transmission fluid doesn't need to be replaced under "normal conditions." That strikes me as lunacy, especially since T-IV, as far as I know, is not a synthetic fluid. We want this car to last a long, long time, but I don't like wasting money or resources, either.

So is a suck-and-refill with genuine T-IV every 10,000 miles too much? Too little? About right?

Thank you.


The Matrix doesn't use WS fluid?
No drain plug for the transmission?
 
Originally Posted By: xpeteyjtx
Originally Posted By: Reginald
My wife's '08 Matrix has 10,000 miles. Yesterday, I used the Liqui-Vac to do a drain-and-refill (suck-and-refill?) on the transmission. The Liqui-Vac removed a tad more than 3 quarts of fluid. If I understand the manual correctly, draining the transmission from the drain plug would remove something like 3.5 or 3.6 quarts, so I was satisfied with the results from the vacuum. Naturally, I refilled the transmission with Toyota T-IV.

Would repeating this routine every 10,000 miles be overkill? Toyota says that the transmission fluid doesn't need to be replaced under "normal conditions." That strikes me as lunacy, especially since T-IV, as far as I know, is not a synthetic fluid. We want this car to last a long, long time, but I don't like wasting money or resources, either.

So is a suck-and-refill with genuine T-IV every 10,000 miles too much? Too little? About right?

Thank you.


The Matrix doesn't use WS fluid?
No drain plug for the transmission?


Nope; our Matrix uses T-IV. Maybe Toyota changed to WS for 2009, but the '08s take T-IV.

Yes, the transmission has a drain plug. I used the Liqui-Vac mostly out of curiosity, to see how well it would work. My impression is that it works well enough for my purposes, since the difference between draining and sucking seems to be about 0.25 quart. Eventually, I'll pull the drain plug when the transmission is good and hot and let it drip for a long time, but I like being able to replace 3-plus quarts of fluid without having to get under the car. The fluid was warm, but not hot, when I used the Liqui-Vac yesterday, and I was pleased by how quickly the gizmo sucked out all the fluid it could get. The tank had slightly more than 3 quarts in it after five or six minutes. I'm looking forward to changing the oil in our lawn mower without having to tip the thing on its side.

Hmm. I wonder if I can invent an adaptor that would let me use the Liqui-Vac as a vacuum brake bleeder.
 
Originally Posted By: Reginald
My wife's '08 Matrix has 10,000 miles. Yesterday, I used the Liqui-Vac to do a drain-and-refill (suck-and-refill?) on the transmission. The Liqui-Vac removed a tad more than 3 quarts of fluid. If I understand the manual correctly, draining the transmission from the drain plug would remove something like 3.5 or 3.6 quarts, so I was satisfied with the results from the vacuum. Naturally, I refilled the transmission with Toyota T-IV.

Would repeating this routine every 10,000 miles be overkill? Toyota says that the transmission fluid doesn't need to be replaced under "normal conditions." That strikes me as lunacy, especially since T-IV, as far as I know, is not a synthetic fluid. We want this car to last a long, long time, but I don't like wasting money or resources, either.

So is a suck-and-refill with genuine T-IV every 10,000 miles too much? Too little? About right?

Thank you.


I would also drop the pan and clean the filter (screen) at 30K miles. I was quite surprised by all of the metal fragments on the bottom of my pan. A drain and refill takes 3.2 quarts. The toyota dealer will tell you that you do not have to drop the pan, but I say otherwise.
 
Originally Posted By: mikered30
Originally Posted By: Reginald
My wife's '08 Matrix has 10,000 miles. Yesterday, I used the Liqui-Vac to do a drain-and-refill (suck-and-refill?) on the transmission. The Liqui-Vac removed a tad more than 3 quarts of fluid. If I understand the manual correctly, draining the transmission from the drain plug would remove something like 3.5 or 3.6 quarts, so I was satisfied with the results from the vacuum. Naturally, I refilled the transmission with Toyota T-IV.

Would repeating this routine every 10,000 miles be overkill? Toyota says that the transmission fluid doesn't need to be replaced under "normal conditions." That strikes me as lunacy, especially since T-IV, as far as I know, is not a synthetic fluid. We want this car to last a long, long time, but I don't like wasting money or resources, either.

So is a suck-and-refill with genuine T-IV every 10,000 miles too much? Too little? About right?

Thank you.


I would also drop the pan and clean the filter (screen) at 30K miles. I was quite surprised by all of the metal fragments on the bottom of my pan. A drain and refill takes 3.2 quarts. The toyota dealer will tell you that you do not have to drop the pan, but I say otherwise.


Did you have any trouble with leaks after removing the pan? That's the only reason I hesitate to take such things apart.

When I worked in a garage a long time ago, I was astonished by the amount and variety of fragments and metal sediment in transmission pans and differentials.
 
A few months back I dropped the pan on my 06 Camry SE V-6. There was really nothing to speak of in the bottom of the pan besides the normal light dusting of clutch paste. Why is everyone so paranoid about removing pans because of leaks. If you use a good gasket ( I use OEM ) clean all surfaces and tighten the bolts properly you wont have leaks. If you are still skeptical use Permatex The Right Stuff and nothing is leaking, period.

Mikered30- There are other better ATF's out there (synthetic) that you can run much much longer and will protect your transmission much better. T-IV is in the same class as Honda Z1, complete garbage. I use Redline D4. My trans shifts like a dream now. If you feel more compfortable using T-IV, then that is great. But it wouldn't hurt to research some of the other alternatives such as Redline and Amsoil to name a few, and see if they might make more sense in your application.
thumbsup2.gif
 
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Reginald,

Good idea to "suck 'n fill" every 10K - cheap insurance! I've been doing a "drain 'n fill" on my '02 Escape's auto trans (Mercon ATF) every 10K since new and it shifts great.
 
You are on the right track to keeping your transmission healthy for a long time.

At the 30k mile mark and every 30k miles there after, I would undo the drain plug and drain the fluid as particles may be flushed out of the system through this method that would normally not be picked up the vac.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Reginald
Originally Posted By: mikered30
Originally Posted By: Reginald
My wife's '08 Matrix has 10,000 miles. Yesterday, I used the Liqui-Vac to do a drain-and-refill (suck-and-refill?) on the transmission. The Liqui-Vac removed a tad more than 3 quarts of fluid. If I understand the manual correctly, draining the transmission from the drain plug would remove something like 3.5 or 3.6 quarts, so I was satisfied with the results from the vacuum. Naturally, I refilled the transmission with Toyota T-IV.

Would repeating this routine every 10,000 miles be overkill? Toyota says that the transmission fluid doesn't need to be replaced under "normal conditions." That strikes me as lunacy, especially since T-IV, as far as I know, is not a synthetic fluid. We want this car to last a long, long time, but I don't like wasting money or resources, either.

So is a suck-and-refill with genuine T-IV every 10,000 miles too much? Too little? About right?

Thank you.


I would also drop the pan and clean the filter (screen) at 30K miles. I was quite surprised by all of the metal fragments on the bottom of my pan. A drain and refill takes 3.2 quarts. The toyota dealer will tell you that you do not have to drop the pan, but I say otherwise.


Did you have any trouble with leaks after removing the pan? That's the only reason I hesitate to take such things apart.

When I worked in a garage a long time ago, I was astonished by the amount and variety of fragments and metal sediment in transmission pans and differentials.


No problem removing the pan. I used an OEM gasket from the stealership, $13 if I recall correctly. I didn't even use a gasket sealer when I put on the pan gasket. I cleaned the pan and mounting surface very well.

Torque specs are the following: 7 ft-lbs for the 3 bolts securing the oil strainer (oil pickup/filter) and 48 in-lbs for the 18 oil pan bolts.
 
Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
A few months back I dropped the pan on my 06 Camry SE V-6. There was really nothing to speak of in the bottom of the pan besides the normal light dusting of clutch paste. Why is everyone so paranoid about removing pans because of leaks. If you use a good gasket ( I use OEM ) clean all surfaces and tighten the bolts properly you wont have leaks. If you are still skeptical use Permatex The Right Stuff and nothing is leaking, period.

Mikered30- There are other better ATF's out there (synthetic) that you can run much much longer and will protect your transmission much better. T-IV is in the same class as Honda Z1, complete garbage. I use Redline D4. My trans shifts like a dream now. If you feel more compfortable using T-IV, then that is great. But it wouldn't hurt to research some of the other alternatives such as Redline and Amsoil to name a few, and see if they might make more sense in your application.
thumbsup2.gif



I am currently on the fence right now between the red line D4 and Amsoil universal ATF. Did you get your D4 from OG racing? http://www.ogracing.com/catalog/searched...SMISSION-FLUIDS

That is the cheapest place I could find it. Did you do a line flush with the D4 or a few drain and refills. Which car do you use D4 in?
 
The only tip I have is to make sure you don't loose the crush washer.. or forget. Although I don't know if it would leak without it. On the parents Vibe I pulled the drain plug starting at 45k and again at 55k. Put Mercon/Dextron III with Lubeguard Black. At 65k it's looks alot better and shifts better than it did with the TIV, whether the TIV just plain sucks or it was the age is probably up for debate. Probably use Penz Multi or Valvoline Multi next time.
 
I got the D4 through amazon.com and it is sold by Hoerr Racing Products for $98.40 a case. I performed a full flush in my garage on my Camry SE. At the time I took the pan off just to check. It looked pretty clean, considering it only had 28,000 it should. I really like the D4. I also have a bypass filter installed on my trans as well, so it stays nice and clean. It's something I think every transmission could use if you plan on keeping the car for a long time.
 
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One last thing. Both Redline and Amsoil are very good ATF's and I would run either one. If you get redline look into amazon or the place you mentioned. If Amsoil I use Pablo.
 
Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
One last thing. Both Redline and Amsoil are very good ATF's and I would run either one. If you get redline look into amazon or the place you mentioned. If Amsoil I use Pablo.


Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: Reginald
My wife's '08 Matrix has 10,000 miles. Yesterday, I used the Liqui-Vac to do a drain-and-refill (suck-and-refill?) on the transmission. The Liqui-Vac removed a tad more than 3 quarts of fluid. If I understand the manual correctly, draining the transmission from the drain plug would remove something like 3.5 or 3.6 quarts, so I was satisfied with the results from the vacuum. Naturally, I refilled the transmission with Toyota T-IV.

Would repeating this routine every 10,000 miles be overkill? Toyota says that the transmission fluid doesn't need to be replaced under "normal conditions." That strikes me as lunacy, especially since T-IV, as far as I know, is not a synthetic fluid. We want this car to last a long, long time, but I don't like wasting money or resources, either.

So is a suck-and-refill with genuine T-IV every 10,000 miles too much? Too little? About right?


Thank you.


Yep, that Matrix will last a long time if the engine doesn't sludge up and "grenade" like many previous Toyota engines. I would change that transmission fluid real often, that will surely offset the poor design that has plagued previous Toyota trans that tended to lockup between 40 and 100 thou. That's why Consumer Reports no longer gives Toyota cars an automatic "Recommended" rating. Want my advice, don't buy a Toyota for a few years until they get their quality back. Check out this site for previous problems:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/
 
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I havent seen a single newer Toyota engine that has "sludged up"??? T-IV is a miserable ATF, that coupled with Toyotas ridiculous recommendation of 100,000 mile service intervals and the quality issue of the transmission is merely interesting. Toyota uses a very high quality transmission in MOST of there vehicles. There are only a few problems in select models. It beats owning a Honda FWD car by a long shot.
 
I did a drain and fill on my camry at 55,000km, and at 60,000km. Form now on I will do Every 30k - 90,000 120,000 etc. I think that is more than enough. the fluid in my AT is now as fresh as the bottle it came in as for smells and looks.

the T-IV coming out at 55,000 was dark purple, lots of grey clutch pack material I guess, and the stuff at 60,000 was somewhat better.

Some folks do consecutive drain and fills (as in 3 or so a day) to get close to changing everything out in day, but I reckon regular single drain and fills is a great thing to do.

other folks do driveway flushes with disconnecting hoses etc. many ways to skin a cat.
 
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