Manufacturing during WW2

[JimPghPA]

One thing I did not like about Ford was they also built for the Germans using a production plant they already had in a German occupied area.

A person I knew was a WWII bomber pilot, and he told me that Mr. Ford told the president that if his German factory was ever bombed, he would see to it that his US factories no longer made bombers for the US. All alie aircraft had strict orders that the Ford factory was never to be bombed.

There's an interesting side story to that Ford factory bombing being verboten. Acording to the same WWII bomber pilot who told me of the factory being off limits, one day one fighter pilot had never been informed. He was carrying bombs and saw the undamaged German factory and decided it looked like a good target. Apparently Mr.Ford had convinced the Germans to also protect his factory, or at least the Germans had figured it worth protecting big time. Because as that fighter aproached the German Ford factory an unbelievable amount of anti-aircraft cannons from the ground filled the shy with so many explosions that that fighter pilot quickly turned around and was lucky to have not been shot down.

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Anyhow, one thing I never liked about Ford is he played both sides.

 

[Pablo]

One thing I did not like about Ford was they also built for the Germans using a production plant they already had in a German occupied area.

A person I knew was a WWII bomber pilot, and he told me that Mr. Ford told the president that if his German factory was ever bombed, he would see to it that his US factories no longer made bombers for the US. All alie aircraft had strict orders that the Ford factory was never to be bombed.

There's an interesting side story to that Ford factory bombing being verboten. Acording to the same WWII bomber pilot who told me of the factory being off limits, one day one fighter pilot had never been informed. He was carrying bombs and saw the undamaged German factory and decided it looked like a good target. Apparently Mr.Ford had convinced the Germans to also protect his factory, or at least the Germans had figured it worth protecting big time. Because as that fighter aproached the German Ford factory an unbelievable amount of anti-aircraft cannons from the ground filled the shy with so many explosions that that fighter pilot quickly turned around and was lucky to have not been shot down.

-------------

Anyhow, one thing I never liked about Ford is he played both sides.

That sounds like lore. Links? Proof?

I know Ford was in Germany I would like to know what level. I will study perhaps tomorrow

 

[JimPghPA]

That sounds like lore. Links? Proof?

I know Ford was in Germany I would like to know what level. I will study perhaps tomorrow

The gentleman's name who told me this was Adam Metz. He piloted 23 bombing missions over Germany and at his house he showed me his purple heart metal and a picture of some other bombers over Germany that was taken from his aircraft, with flack in the air. He said that closest bomber in the picture was being flown by his best friend and shortly after the picture was taken, a bomber in front of his friends bomber was hit and fell back into the formation and knocked down his friends bomber. None got out.

He told of a few other bombing missions. One his aircraft had so many holes in it that when he landed someone had him sign the de-commission papers because it was scrap. Another they had them go in at 23 thousand feet and told them not to worry because the German anti-aircraft guns could only reach up 18 thousand feet. But they did not mention that the Germans had placed those guns on top of mountains.

Adam told me that many saw that one fighter aproach the German Ford factory. And there were a lot of anti-aircraft guns on the ground protecting that factory.

I don't think Adam exaggerated anything he talked about regarding what he saw back then. He was not the kind of person who made things up, and he had seen a lot.

 

[burbguy82]

Too much to type - but ask google

what did GM build for WW2

From February 1942 until September 1945, GM did not build a single passenger car in the U.S. GM plants were converted to the manufacture of military vehicles, aircraft, war supplies and armaments. More than 113,000 workers, including several key executives, left the corporation to fight in the war.

 

[burbguy82]

@walterjay

Ever seen orangeburg pipe? and wondered why they made it? WW2 was the answer.

 

[PontiacHO]

So much innovation born from the threat of our (and most of the world’s) freedom. Seeing the photos of all of the men and women working in factories building the equipment necessary confirms my opinion that this truly was the greatest generation. Not to mention all of the soldiers that fought and many died for our national freedom. Many thanks to all of the hard working men and women.

Rhetorical question, would this nation have the same “grit” as the WWII generation if/when there’s another war?
I know my thoughts lead me to NO. What’s yours?

 

[Ranger83]

I//1.) The M4 Sherman Tank, (most widely used tank in US military), had been credited to the Ford Motor Company for its manufacture. The truth was, that K.T> Keller, CEO of Chrysler had the contract for the M4. One issue they had, was the power plant. They had a "radial" engine, which was basically 5 V6 engine smashed together:

and although the power was adequate, it did not leave much room for the crew and shells and effects. It was not practical.........So, Keller contacted Henry Ford, and asked if he could use his GAA engine:////

This does not seem quite correct.

Most American (and German) tanks started with aircraft engines. The M2, M3, M4 and M4A1 used the Wright Whirlwind radial engine, This engine was licensed to Continental. It was used in various other armored vehicles as well.

The M4A2 used a composite engine by combining two Detroit Diesel 6-71 engines into a single output shaft and called the 6046. Most of these were shipped to Russia under Lend-Lease as Russia did not have much gasoline available and the T34 was a diesel. The Brits also received some, and they were used by U.S. forces in the Pacific.

The M4A4 used the Chrysler Multibank engine, made by joining five inline 6’s together. Most of these were shipped to the Brits, who found them to require little maintenance and generally superior to their available tank engines. They required a longer hull.

Ford developed “on spec” an aircraft V-12 of 1,650cu (same as Rolls Royce Merlin and some Packards) that was extraordinarily advanced for the time. It featured a cast aluminum block and heads, DOHC, and four valves per cylinder. Only one problem: no one bought it. Rolls Royce wanted Ford to produce Merlins, but they declined to do so in Detroit [Ford UK produced about 30,000 Merlins).

The Army still faced a shortage of tank engines. So at Army behest Ford cut down the V-12 to make the V8 GAA, retaining most of the features of the 1,650 in a 1,100 cu in engine with 500hp and over 1,000 lb ft of torque. This engine was used in the M4A3 - a variant also produced by Ford (about 1,700 of the total production of 10,000 M4A3’s).

The GAA powered many other armored vehicles including the M26 Pershing and other models into the 1950’s. Ford also brought back the V12 as vehicles got bigger and heavier.

Rolls Royce used a variant of the V-12 Merlin called the Meteor for their later, larger tanks.

Packard built over 50,000 licensed Merlins, used mostly in P51’s, spares, and various British designs manufactured in Canada.

Packard also built a V-12 derived from their earlier aero engines to power PT boats.

One huge development that helped U.S. Industry mobilize: the “Standard Industrial Classification” AKA “SEC Code.” This four digit number classification in the 1930’s and helped the military select manufacturers. So Remington-Rand made pistols….

https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-war/war-production

 

[Ranger83]

So much innovation born from the threat of our (and most of the world’s) freedom. Seeing the photos of all of the men and women working in factories building the equipment necessary confirms my opinion that this truly was the greatest generation. Not to mention all of the soldiers that fought and many died for our national freedom. Many thanks to all of the hard working men and women.

Rhetorical question, would this nation have the same “grit” as the WWII generation if/when there’s another war?
I know my thoughts lead me to NO. What’s yours?

Each generation seems to deride their offspring.

The soldiers who fought in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan were every bit as tough and dedicated as their forebears.

 

[Ranger83]

This is a comprehensive video on the development of the GAA.

This video implies Ford copied the Merlin after receiving the blueprints, but this is disputed on several fronts. Ford was the world leader in aluminum casting, and steel casting. Other than being dimensionally similar to the Merlin (as was the Allison 1710) they have almost nothing in common.



Others believe Ford started the project in the late 30’s. The author of the “copy” claim, Maurice Olley, worked for Rolls Royce.

https://thunderboats.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-ford-s-the-merlins-and-maurice-olley

 

[Astro14]

I have a WW II 1903-A3 rifle - made by Smith Corona. The typewriter company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Corona

Underwood typewriter company, in Hartford, CT made M1 carbines. An Underwood M1 is on my “wish list”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwood_Typewriter_Company

Packard made over 55,000 Rolls Royce Merlin engines in Detroit. That was the engine that powered the Spitfire, Mustang, and Lancaster Bomber.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin#Production

Rolls Royce knew they couldn’t make enough for the war effort, and Packard was the only manufacturer that met the production standards for these engines.

Packard had designed and built its own V-12 aircraft engine for World War I known as the Liberty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_L-12

This engine was further developed into a marine engine, and in WW II, Navy PT boats ran Packard V-12s. A supercharged, intercooled engine with two spark plugs per cylinder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_1A-2500

 

[Ranger83]

I have a WW II 1903-A3 rifle - made by Smith Corona. The typewriter company.

//

There is a story behind that as well.

Springfield Armory started development of a semi automatic service rifle in the 30’s. Development funds were requested from the Navy/Marine Corps, but they declined. The Army standardized on the Garand in 1937. The Brits, Germans, and USMC believed their infantrymen would waste ammo. The Army looked at the Garand as a means to more than double the firepower of an infantry squad.

In late 1940, the USMC conducted a service rifle trial and officially selected the M1903 Springfield. So the U.S. arsenal system had to tool up both rifles.

One of the officers on this trial was Major Merritt Edson. When he was selected to lead a Marine Raider Battalion, he made sure that M1 Garands were part of their equipment.

Die to (mostly prewar) logistical snafus, line Marine Infantry units landing on Quadalcanal were equipped with M1903’s, while some support units and Raiders had M1’s. The Army units arriving in November were fully equipped with Garands.

Marines started writing home asking why they did not have Garands. This hastened the implementation throughout the service. As a practical matter, during the war Army and Marine trainees were trained on M1903’s, then issued Garands in theater.

The development of the M1 Carbine is more interesting!

 

[Ranger83]

That sounds like lore. Links? Proof?

I know Ford was in Germany I would like to know what level. I will study perhaps tomorrow

It is mentioned on a Wiki page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Germany

But the Germans utilized captured factories throughout Europe.

https://www.jta.org/2001/12/06/lifestyle/report-absolves-ford-of-wartime-guilt

 

[burbguy82]

This does not seem quite correct.

Most American (and German) tanks started with aircraft engines. The M2, M3, M4 and M4A1 used the Wright Whirlwind radial engine, This engine was licensed to Continental. It was used in various other armored vehicles as well.

The M4A2 used a composite engine by combining two Detroit Diesel 6-71 engines into a single output shaft and called the 6046. Most of these were shipped to Russia under Lend-Lease as Russia did not have much gasoline available and the T34 was a diesel. The Brits also received some, and they were used by U.S. forces in the Pacific.

The M4A4 used the Chrysler Multibank engine, made by joining five inline 6’s together. Most of these were shipped to the Brits, who found them to require little maintenance and generally superior to their available tank engines. They required a longer hull.

Ford developed “on spec” an aircraft V-12 of 1,650cu (same as Rolls Royce Merlin and some Packards) that was extraordinarily advanced for the time. It featured a cast aluminum block and heads, DOHC, and four valves per cylinder. Only one problem: no one bought it. Rolls Royce wanted Ford to produce Merlins, but they declined to do so in Detroit [Ford UK produced about 30,000 Merlins).

The Army still faced a shortage of tank engines. So at Army behest Ford cut down the V-12 to make the V8 GAA, retaining most of the features of the 1,650 in a 1,100 cu in engine with 500hp and over 1,000 lb ft of torque. This engine was used in the M4A3 - a variant also produced by Ford (about 1,700 of the total production of 10,000 M4A3’s).

The GAA powered many other armored vehicles including the M26 Pershing and other models into the 1950’s. Ford also brought back the V12 as vehicles got bigger and heavier.

Rolls Royce used a variant of the V-12 Merlin called the Meteor for their later, larger tanks.

Packard built over 50,000 licensed Merlins, used mostly in P51’s, spares, and various British designs manufactured in Canada.

Packard also built a V-12 derived from their earlier aero engines to power PT boats.

One huge development that helped U.S. Industry mobilize: the “Standard Industrial Classification” AKA “SEC Code.” This four digit number classification in the 1930’s and helped the military select manufacturers. So Remington-Rand made pistols….

https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-war/war-production

i am with you, the ford gaa was a 4 cylinder less aircraft engine.....all i reported was what the history channel special had.

 

[Pablo]

The gentleman's name who told me this was Adam Metz. He piloted 23 bombing missions over Germany and at his house he showed me his purple heart metal and a picture of some other bombers over Germany that was taken from his aircraft, with flack in the air. He said that closest bomber in the picture was being flown by his best friend and shortly after the picture was taken, a bomber in front of his friends bomber was hit and fell back into the formation and knocked down his friends bomber. None got out.

He told of a few other bombing missions. One his aircraft had so many holes in it that when he landed someone had him sign the de-commission papers because it was scrap. Another they had them go in at 23 thousand feet and told them not to worry because the German anti-aircraft guns could only reach up 18 thousand feet. But they did not mention that the Germans had placed those guns on top of mountains.

Adam told me that many saw that one fighter aproach the German Ford factory. And there were a lot of anti-aircraft guns on the ground protecting that factory.

I don't think Adam exaggerated anything he talked about regarding what he saw back then. He was not the kind of person who made things up, and he had seen a lot.

Yes for specific reasons (quicker recovery after the work) the Ford Werkes in Cologne were only lightly damaged.

I saw nothing specifically about the Germans having extra air defense for the factory. That part, seems like lore.

 

[Hall]

and he told me that Mr. Ford told the president that if his German factory was ever bombed, he would see to it that his US factories no longer made bombers for the US.

IMO, this is a fairy tale. The War Powers Act trumps Mr Ford's wishes....

 

[Ronsant]

So much innovation born from the threat of our (and most of the world’s) freedom. Seeing the photos of all of the men and women working in factories building the equipment necessary confirms my opinion that this truly was the greatest generation. Not to mention all of the soldiers that fought and many died for our national freedom. Many thanks to all of the hard working men and women.

Rhetorical question, would this nation have the same “grit” as the WWII generation if/when there’s another war?
I know my thoughts lead me to NO. What’s yours?

I think we, as a country, are too divided to come together for a larger cause. Thinking about that makes me sad. I don’t see businesses working together with the government, sacrificing their own production. I also don’t see the citizens coming together to back a cause. Almost all public projects are rife with greed, delays, and folks getting what they can for themselves.
The WW2 generation was peak America for most. Exceptions to some Japanese Americans and other minorities, but the unity for a cause is what impresses me most.

 

[Ronsant]

Each generation seems to deride their offspring.

The soldiers who fought in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan were every bit as tough and dedicated as their forebears.

Pontiac is asking about the nation, not the military. Nation as a whole did not sacrifice much during those conflicts. Opinions and actions were very divided across the US.

 

[eljefino]

I think we, as a country, are too divided to come together for a larger cause. Thinking about that makes me sad. I don’t see businesses working together with the government, sacrificing their own production. I also don’t see the citizens coming together to back a cause. Almost all public projects are rife with greed, delays, and folks getting what they can for themselves.
The WW2 generation was peak America for most. Exceptions to some Japanese Americans and other minorities, but the unity for a cause is what impresses me most.

The downward slide was pretty recent too... Look at the Boston Bean Pot hockey tournament that happened during the Blizzard of 1978-- the vendors gave away all their food, nearby churches etc opened as shelters. Fast forward to "Woodstock 99" and its $7 bottles of water with outside beverages prohibited.

 

[K-Man]

General Motors had bought Opel in Germany before WWII. GM received reimbursement from the US government for Allied damage to the Opel plant. And you thought Ford was bad?

Ford was falling apart so badly during WWII because of Henry Sr.'s growing senility and his son Edsel's death that it threatened the company's production for the war. The government pulled Henry II, Edsel's son, from service with the Navy in the Pacific so he could take over control of the company.

 

[Opelman]

Studebaker made trucks, a tracked vehicle called the Weasel, and radial aircraft engines. At least one is still flying today. Maytag used their aluminum foundry skills to make aircraft landing gear components. Briggs and Stratton made small generators which powered gun turrets.