Maybe there is an "Asian triangle" like the Bermuda triangle and aliens took it.
Malaysia Airlines 777 loses contact...not found
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Originally Posted By: ryansride2017
If the plane is not on the bottom of the ocean, why wouldn't the "pinging" which allowed tracing the plane to the Indian Ocean, still be providing data to its current location?
From my understanding, the "pinging" signal isn't terribly strong. It's more designed to lead investigators to the black box in more narrowed search area (such as if debris is scattered over an area of numerous square miles) rather than taking a macro look at an entire side of the world and being able to see or hear the pinging from hundreds or thousands of miles away.
If the plane is not on the bottom of the ocean, why wouldn't the "pinging" which allowed tracing the plane to the Indian Ocean, still be providing data to its current location?
From my understanding, the "pinging" signal isn't terribly strong. It's more designed to lead investigators to the black box in more narrowed search area (such as if debris is scattered over an area of numerous square miles) rather than taking a macro look at an entire side of the world and being able to see or hear the pinging from hundreds or thousands of miles away.
Most of the "experts" I've seen have flown Cessnas...not big Boeings.
Without knowing fuel loading and wind aloft .. .Yemen is a guess...at best...and presumes that the people flying the jet stayed at optimum altitude...
If you mean ACARS "ping", which is a horrible term, by the way, inaccurate and confusing..., it gets powered down when jet is shut down. With APU and engines off. It can be shut off by pulling the circuit breakers, if you know which ones to pull...they're in the cockpit. It can be shut off by powering down the VHF #3 or the SATCOMs.
The flight data recorders (which are painted orange...and referred to by all those experts as black boxes) will send out a radio ping if the airplane crashes, exceeding a certain G load.
That Ping is not the ACARS maintenance status reporting that US officials say have been received from the maintenance computer reporting on the engines.
So many experts, so many tortured phrases and inaccurate descriptions...
Without knowing fuel loading and wind aloft .. .Yemen is a guess...at best...and presumes that the people flying the jet stayed at optimum altitude...
If you mean ACARS "ping", which is a horrible term, by the way, inaccurate and confusing..., it gets powered down when jet is shut down. With APU and engines off. It can be shut off by pulling the circuit breakers, if you know which ones to pull...they're in the cockpit. It can be shut off by powering down the VHF #3 or the SATCOMs.
The flight data recorders (which are painted orange...and referred to by all those experts as black boxes) will send out a radio ping if the airplane crashes, exceeding a certain G load.
That Ping is not the ACARS maintenance status reporting that US officials say have been received from the maintenance computer reporting on the engines.
So many experts, so many tortured phrases and inaccurate descriptions...
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Originally Posted By: ryansride2017
If the plane is not on the bottom of the ocean, why wouldn't the "pinging" which allowed tracing the plane to the Indian Ocean, still be providing data to its current location?
I agree, this is where most likely the plane currently resides.
As soon as the powers review their old satellite images in that area, the plane will likely emerge.
Now, even if we find the plane fragments, this could be still unsolved mystery, as the pilot and/or captain likely disconnected black box and any other recorders too taking ques from SilkAir Flight 185:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185
Here are the lessons from this and similar accidents:
1. As planes became very safe, the crew emerged as a major safety thread.
2. Every commercial plane should have GPS trackers (as private planes and trucks have).
3. Transponders, tracking devices, and black boxes should be electrically isolated from the main power supply and not switchable by the aircrew, but only ground crew.
4. Do more profiling of the pilots and screen them better for mental problems, gambling problems, investment losses, too high or too new life insurance, extremist links, etc.
If the plane is not on the bottom of the ocean, why wouldn't the "pinging" which allowed tracing the plane to the Indian Ocean, still be providing data to its current location?
I agree, this is where most likely the plane currently resides.
As soon as the powers review their old satellite images in that area, the plane will likely emerge.
Now, even if we find the plane fragments, this could be still unsolved mystery, as the pilot and/or captain likely disconnected black box and any other recorders too taking ques from SilkAir Flight 185:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185
Here are the lessons from this and similar accidents:
1. As planes became very safe, the crew emerged as a major safety thread.
2. Every commercial plane should have GPS trackers (as private planes and trucks have).
3. Transponders, tracking devices, and black boxes should be electrically isolated from the main power supply and not switchable by the aircrew, but only ground crew.
4. Do more profiling of the pilots and screen them better for mental problems, gambling problems, investment losses, too high or too new life insurance, extremist links, etc.
Screening terrorist is no problem just hand out ham and cheese sandwiches before the flight and watch who doesn't take one.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: ryansride2017
If the plane is not on the bottom of the ocean, why wouldn't the "pinging" which allowed tracing the plane to the Indian Ocean, still be providing data to its current location?
I agree, this is where most likely the plane currently resides.
As soon as the powers review their old satellite images in that area, the plane will likely emerge.
Now, even if we find the plane fragments, this could be still unsolved mystery, as the pilot and/or captain likely disconnected black box and any other recorders too taking ques from SilkAir Flight 185:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185
Here are the lessons from this and similar accidents:
1. As planes became very safe, the crew emerged as a major safety thread.
2. Every commercial plane should have GPS trackers (as private planes and trucks have).
3. Transponders, tracking devices, and black boxes should be electrically isolated from the main power supply and not switchable by the aircrew, but only ground crew.
4. Do more profiling of the pilots and screen them better for mental problems, gambling problems, investment losses, too high or too new life insurance, extremist links, etc.
Every electrical device must be on a breaker, or you jeopardize the airplane. Isolate it from the crew? OK, but you reduce the crew's ability to counter fire and electric failure. (Google Swiss Air 111 and others...airplanes aren't like your house or car...CBS are important).
They're already screened, drug tested, investigated, fingerprinted, required to have a physical twice a year, monitored and subjected to the same screening that passengers are (because my 6 oz tube of shaving cream might allow me to gain control of the airplane, while without it, I would only be able to, uh, have control of the airplane...)..at least in the US.
You want more? No you don't. That adds to ticket prices. Look, the flying public has already gotten what they wanted: cheaper fares. So, you get subcontracting going on to hire out cheaper crews with less experience. Airlines have been through bankruptcy and slashed crew pay. You get cheaper tickets, I get a 60% pay cut in one year. And I encourage the young folks with brains and talent to avoid flying as a career: long hours, low sleep, time away from family and the $$ aren't there any more. I get paid more as a Navy Officer than as an airline pilot. Screen me for financial troubles? Uh, yeah, after laying off thousands of pilots and slashing pay in bankruptcy, now look and see if any US pilots have troubles...sure...great idea...remove the rest of my privacy too. Add video monitoring I the cockpit. Watch me in my hotel room too, so you know I'm actually sleeping...that will all help "safety" by presuming that I am an incompetent fanatical addict in financial trouble with a death wish.
You want a 50 year old combat-experienced Navy fighter pilot with 20,000 hours and multiple type ratings? Not if you're going to treat me worse than I am already treated. If you're going to make this job suck even more, then I will go do something else and so will all the guys/gals with talent, education and experience.
No more Sullys...just the cheapest labor you can find, with the bare minimum of experience. Treat them badly, and they'll reward you with their best efforts...that's how it works, right? Hope nothing goes wrong on the flight...
You'll get the kid that was in the right seat on this flight: 27-year-old Fariq Abdul Hamid, an employee of Malaysia Airlines since 2007, with 2,763 flying hours. Fariq was transitioning to the Boeing 777-200 after having completed his simulator training. Never had a security clearance in the DOD, background checked by Malaysia, maybe...and oh, yeah, just learning to fly the 777, on his first flight out of the simulator.
Just like the kid in the right seat who decided to seek Asylum in Switzerland after locking the captain out of the cockpit.
You get what you pay for...
Originally Posted By: ryansride2017
If the plane is not on the bottom of the ocean, why wouldn't the "pinging" which allowed tracing the plane to the Indian Ocean, still be providing data to its current location?
I agree, this is where most likely the plane currently resides.
As soon as the powers review their old satellite images in that area, the plane will likely emerge.
Now, even if we find the plane fragments, this could be still unsolved mystery, as the pilot and/or captain likely disconnected black box and any other recorders too taking ques from SilkAir Flight 185:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185
Here are the lessons from this and similar accidents:
1. As planes became very safe, the crew emerged as a major safety thread.
2. Every commercial plane should have GPS trackers (as private planes and trucks have).
3. Transponders, tracking devices, and black boxes should be electrically isolated from the main power supply and not switchable by the aircrew, but only ground crew.
4. Do more profiling of the pilots and screen them better for mental problems, gambling problems, investment losses, too high or too new life insurance, extremist links, etc.
Every electrical device must be on a breaker, or you jeopardize the airplane. Isolate it from the crew? OK, but you reduce the crew's ability to counter fire and electric failure. (Google Swiss Air 111 and others...airplanes aren't like your house or car...CBS are important).
They're already screened, drug tested, investigated, fingerprinted, required to have a physical twice a year, monitored and subjected to the same screening that passengers are (because my 6 oz tube of shaving cream might allow me to gain control of the airplane, while without it, I would only be able to, uh, have control of the airplane...)..at least in the US.
You want more? No you don't. That adds to ticket prices. Look, the flying public has already gotten what they wanted: cheaper fares. So, you get subcontracting going on to hire out cheaper crews with less experience. Airlines have been through bankruptcy and slashed crew pay. You get cheaper tickets, I get a 60% pay cut in one year. And I encourage the young folks with brains and talent to avoid flying as a career: long hours, low sleep, time away from family and the $$ aren't there any more. I get paid more as a Navy Officer than as an airline pilot. Screen me for financial troubles? Uh, yeah, after laying off thousands of pilots and slashing pay in bankruptcy, now look and see if any US pilots have troubles...sure...great idea...remove the rest of my privacy too. Add video monitoring I the cockpit. Watch me in my hotel room too, so you know I'm actually sleeping...that will all help "safety" by presuming that I am an incompetent fanatical addict in financial trouble with a death wish.
You want a 50 year old combat-experienced Navy fighter pilot with 20,000 hours and multiple type ratings? Not if you're going to treat me worse than I am already treated. If you're going to make this job suck even more, then I will go do something else and so will all the guys/gals with talent, education and experience.
No more Sullys...just the cheapest labor you can find, with the bare minimum of experience. Treat them badly, and they'll reward you with their best efforts...that's how it works, right? Hope nothing goes wrong on the flight...
You'll get the kid that was in the right seat on this flight: 27-year-old Fariq Abdul Hamid, an employee of Malaysia Airlines since 2007, with 2,763 flying hours. Fariq was transitioning to the Boeing 777-200 after having completed his simulator training. Never had a security clearance in the DOD, background checked by Malaysia, maybe...and oh, yeah, just learning to fly the 777, on his first flight out of the simulator.
Just like the kid in the right seat who decided to seek Asylum in Switzerland after locking the captain out of the cockpit.
You get what you pay for...
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Screening terrorist is no problem just hand out ham and cheese sandwiches before the flight and watch who doesn't take one.
Or maybe it's the case of the extra legs?
The photos circulated Tuesday of the two Iranians who got on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight showed two men with different bags, different T-shirts and the same pair of legs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...e-missing-legs/
Screening terrorist is no problem just hand out ham and cheese sandwiches before the flight and watch who doesn't take one.
Or maybe it's the case of the extra legs?
The photos circulated Tuesday of the two Iranians who got on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight showed two men with different bags, different T-shirts and the same pair of legs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...e-missing-legs/
Astro:
Thanks for taking the time to answer those questions, the answers were illuminating. My experience ends at single engine land.
It sounds like the searchers have a formidable task ahead of them.
God bless the passengers and their families.
edit: Sorry to hear that commercial aviation has degenerated so badly. I remember when everyone got dressed up to fly on an airliner.
Thanks for taking the time to answer those questions, the answers were illuminating. My experience ends at single engine land.
It sounds like the searchers have a formidable task ahead of them.
God bless the passengers and their families.
edit: Sorry to hear that commercial aviation has degenerated so badly. I remember when everyone got dressed up to fly on an airliner.
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A Boeing 777-266ER, SU-GBP, sustained substantial damage in a cockpit fire at Cairo International Airport (CAI), Egypt.
Quote:
The crew oxygen system has a number of oxygen lines and hoses running through the area were the fire started. Some of those hoses are electrically conductive, according to research. The investigators are conducting tests to determine if a failure involving these hoses could have been the primary cause of the fire.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20110729-0
Quote:
The crew oxygen system has a number of oxygen lines and hoses running through the area were the fire started. Some of those hoses are electrically conductive, according to research. The investigators are conducting tests to determine if a failure involving these hoses could have been the primary cause of the fire.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20110729-0
Originally Posted By: Blaze
Originally Posted By: Trav
Screening terrorist is no problem just hand out ham and cheese sandwiches before the flight and watch who doesn't take one.
Or maybe it's the case of the extra legs?
The photos circulated Tuesday of the two Iranians who got on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight showed two men with different bags, different T-shirts and the same pair of legs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...e-missing-legs/
Hilarious!
Originally Posted By: Trav
Screening terrorist is no problem just hand out ham and cheese sandwiches before the flight and watch who doesn't take one.
Or maybe it's the case of the extra legs?
The photos circulated Tuesday of the two Iranians who got on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight showed two men with different bags, different T-shirts and the same pair of legs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...e-missing-legs/
Hilarious!
Sorry for the rant guys...
But everyone's talking about a "pilot shortage" coming up...there's no shortage of qualified, capable folks, just a shortage of qualified capable folks willing to do it for what we are now paid.
For 11 years now, my airline job has paid less than Navy Lieutenant, not senior officer (which I am) but Lieutenant. I've worked my tail off at two jobs to stay afloat, often with zero days off in a month, (as in, working 31 days, including weekends), been divorced, almost quit the airline altogether when I came back off active duty last year...
Airline pilots fly millions of flights every year without incident. We are the most inspected, scrutinized, and tracked group on the planet, that's why there are so very few incidents. We are not the problem.
But everyone's talking about a "pilot shortage" coming up...there's no shortage of qualified, capable folks, just a shortage of qualified capable folks willing to do it for what we are now paid.
For 11 years now, my airline job has paid less than Navy Lieutenant, not senior officer (which I am) but Lieutenant. I've worked my tail off at two jobs to stay afloat, often with zero days off in a month, (as in, working 31 days, including weekends), been divorced, almost quit the airline altogether when I came back off active duty last year...
Airline pilots fly millions of flights every year without incident. We are the most inspected, scrutinized, and tracked group on the planet, that's why there are so very few incidents. We are not the problem.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Sorry for the rant guys...
We are not the problem.
Astro, take it easy!
US pilots are not the problem. A least in terms of large commercial planes, yet. It's the pilots from selected countries (I'm no going to go any further so I would not sound racist) who seem to be doing all the commercial planes suicide/homicide flying lately.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/11/just-how-common-are-pilot-suicides/
Sorry for the rant guys...
We are not the problem.
Astro, take it easy!
US pilots are not the problem. A least in terms of large commercial planes, yet. It's the pilots from selected countries (I'm no going to go any further so I would not sound racist) who seem to be doing all the commercial planes suicide/homicide flying lately.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/11/just-how-common-are-pilot-suicides/
Astro, I saw Sully Sullenberger's testimony before Congress about that very subject and I've also read that airline pilot's are being paid less and less in the anticipation of the true digital age of aviation where skilled (as in stick and rudder/knowledge of aviation from the seat of the pants) aviators are no longer needed and commercial aircraft will essentially be drones. The same paradigm as say a commuter rail train where everything is automated and one or 2 guys sit there and just monitor the systems.
That was really a good job noticing those legs. They look exactly the same and that is really strange. It makes me think about a lot of things including some dark thoughts about some bad possibilities. And hey, from the start, we have hardly been able to believe anything from the 'Malaysian authorities.'
Originally Posted By: Blaze
A Boeing 777-266ER, SU-GBP, sustained substantial damage in a cockpit fire at Cairo International Airport (CAI), Egypt.
Quote:
The crew oxygen system has a number of oxygen lines and hoses running through the area were the fire started. Some of those hoses are electrically conductive, according to research. The investigators are conducting tests to determine if a failure involving these hoses could have been the primary cause of the fire.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20110729-0
I don't know why but I still can't get fire out of my mind combined with that letter previously posted by the oil platform witness.
A Boeing 777-266ER, SU-GBP, sustained substantial damage in a cockpit fire at Cairo International Airport (CAI), Egypt.
Quote:
The crew oxygen system has a number of oxygen lines and hoses running through the area were the fire started. Some of those hoses are electrically conductive, according to research. The investigators are conducting tests to determine if a failure involving these hoses could have been the primary cause of the fire.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20110729-0
I don't know why but I still can't get fire out of my mind combined with that letter previously posted by the oil platform witness.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Astro, I saw Sully Sullenberger's testimony before Congress about that very subject and I've also read that airline pilot's are being paid less and less in the anticipation of the true digital age of aviation where skilled (as in stick and rudder/knowledge of aviation from the seat of the pants) aviators are no longer needed and commercial aircraft will essentially be drones. The same paradigm as say a commuter rail train where everything is automated and one or 2 guys sit there and just monitor the systems.
Very true....Getting to the point that they are forgetting or not being taught the most basic thing "Flying the wing".
Astro, I saw Sully Sullenberger's testimony before Congress about that very subject and I've also read that airline pilot's are being paid less and less in the anticipation of the true digital age of aviation where skilled (as in stick and rudder/knowledge of aviation from the seat of the pants) aviators are no longer needed and commercial aircraft will essentially be drones. The same paradigm as say a commuter rail train where everything is automated and one or 2 guys sit there and just monitor the systems.
Very true....Getting to the point that they are forgetting or not being taught the most basic thing "Flying the wing".
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OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Mystic
And it is not just the legs. Take a really close look.
The 2nd picture was literally just stuck on top of the first picture (you can see it if you look) and is a smaller picture. I don't think there's anything sinister there, just laziness and/or incompetence. They scanned the one pic, slapped the other on top of it and scanned it.
They aren't even the same scale. And part of the bag is visible.
And it is not just the legs. Take a really close look.
The 2nd picture was literally just stuck on top of the first picture (you can see it if you look) and is a smaller picture. I don't think there's anything sinister there, just laziness and/or incompetence. They scanned the one pic, slapped the other on top of it and scanned it.
They aren't even the same scale. And part of the bag is visible.
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