M1 SS 10w-30 -VS- 0w-40 in '02 Toyota 3.4L V6

[MavRick]

These results are impressive considering there was 1/2 quart makeup in the first sample and 0 in the 2nd. The added oil would skew the numbers to be more favorable, so makes the 0w40 look even better.

I agree with Patman that the engine breaking in could have something to do with the reduced wear, but the numbers are so good with 0w40, I wouldn't switch.

I guess you aren't worried about warrantee contest issues using an out of spec weight?

 

[Scooter]

Giles,

Thanks for your input.

I am pleased with the results. I am pretty sure that to some degree, the improvement in the wear material numbers is due to being further along the engine break-in curve. That aside, I don't think I could expect much lower wear numbers. For the time being, I will probably stick with this oil. I plan on doing some additional analysis to determine the optimal oil change interval. I also plan on trying some different premium oil filters. I have used Mobil1 and will be testing ACDelco Ultraguard Gold (I got a couple online from Rock Auto) and Bosch.

Warranty issues didn't concern me too much. I also service a couple of other vehicles so there is never a shortage of oil/filter receipts. Even if the dealer tested the oil, the viscosity of the used oil is so close to 30 weight (12.97) I doubt if it would be an issue.

 

[Al]

Its great to see this comparison. The fact that the vehicle has so few iles is probably a factor. But you should be well pleased with the results. Interesting about the TBN and Viscosity of the 0W-40. If you are set on the 40 wt you may want to try the Delvac 5W-40.

 

[Scooter]

Al,

Thanks. I have heard many glowing reports of Delvac 1. It would be interesting to see analysis results comparing Delvac 1 and Mobil 1 0w-40.

 

[Bill J.]

If I am not mistaken (please correct me if...), OA lab has recently farmed out some of their work and the TBN values recently reported are actually higher when measured against their former scale.

The additives for B, Mg,P,Zn being reported for the 0W40 seem significantly different for this grade compared to the other. Didn't someone say that this oil is really different?

 

[MavRick]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill J.:
If I am not mistaken (please correct me if...), OA lab has recently farmed out some of their work and the TBN values recently reported are actually higher when measured against their former scale.

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Good point, but I remember the TBN #'s were being reported Lower by a couple points after they farmed out the work.

 

[Bill J.]

Correct the above post "The TBN values being reported recently are actually lower than before."

 

[buster]

I believe Mobil says there 0w-40 can be used in engines that call for a 30wt. oil.

 

[Scooter]

I was surprised to see the TBN so low for both the used and virgin samples. The lab change sounds like a likely explanation. Based on other SuperSyn reports, I was expecting to see a starting TBN in the 12-13 range.

 

[sprintman]

Just the comparison I've been waiting on. Can't add much except 0W40 Trisyn (would you believe still no Supersyn here) was a killer on our Timken. Hope you put up your next set of figures on the 0W40?
Tks..s

 

[Scooter]

The following are the results of my first and second engine oil analysis. The first numbers are for Mobil 1 SuperSyn 10w-30 and the second (in parens) are for Mobil 1 SuperSyn 0w-40. I used the same oil filter (Mobil 1) and ran the oil the same number of miles (approx. 4,750). The truck is driven with several very short trips daily as well as two or three longer highway trips every week. I live in an inland area of Southern California that rarely gets below freezing and sees Summer temps in excess of 100F.

I recognize that one test report is not a very sound basis for drawing any conclusions about which oil works better in my vehicle but, the results look promising. I am still running the 0w-40 and will be retesting in a few days at 7,500 miles.

Your comments are invited and appreciated.

Oil Analyzers Inc
2002 Toyota Tacoma 3.4L V6
Miles on unit 9,828 (15,900)
Miles on oil 4,730 (4,754)
Filter Mobil 1
Makeup oil 1/2 qt. (0)

10w-30 (0w-40)

Fe 9 (6)
Cr 0 (0)
Pb 5 (3)
Cu 21 (4)
Sn 1 (0)
Al 14 (3)
Ni 0 (0)
Ag 0 (0)
Mn 1 (0)
Si 26 (18)-(seals/gaskets?)
B 30 (148)
Na 11 (19)
Mg 229 (59)
Ca 2804 (2875)
Ba 0 (0)
P 1178 (680)
Zn 1283 (921)
Mo 70 (62)
Ti 0 (0)
V 0 (0)
Cd 0 (0)

Oxd % 31.1 (15.0)
Nox % 30.0 (21.0)
TBN 11.7 (7.16)-(My virgin Mobil 1 0w-40 tested at a TBN of 10.72)

Gly Neg (Neg)
Water less than 0.05 (less than 0.05)
Fuel less than 1.0 (less than 1.0)
Vis 100C 10.6 (12.97)-(My virgin Mobil 1 0w-40 tested at a Visc. of 14.49)
% Solids TR (.1)

I look forward to your questions and comments.

 

[Patman]

Very interesting!

One thing I find strange though is how the TBN dropped so much faster on the 0w40 sample yet the oxidation and nitration percentages were more favorable.

It's possible that some of the reduced wear metals are due to the engine being more broken in, but more than likely in the case of this engine it appears to like the thicker oil. It's too bad that the 0w40 appears to thin out rather quick, although maybe this Toyota engine is pretty hard on the oil. What is the total oil capacity of it?

 

[Scooter]

Patman,

Thanks for your reply.

I agree about the TBN. I was surprised to see it as low as it was.

This engine is a DOHC design with the gear-to-gear drive for the cams (5VZ-FE). Though it is similar to the Toyota V6 with the sludge problems, it does not seem to be overly hard on oil. This engine holds six quarts of oil with my oversize oil filter.

 

[jsharp]

This is a test I’ve been looking for too since I have a vehicle with a 5VZ-FE engine. I’m currently using M1 5W30 and was considering changing to M1 0W40 in the spring at my next scheduled change. It looks like it a good choice in this Toyota motor. I’m going to get the current oil analyzed when I change and I’ll do the same with the 0W40.

 

[TooSlick]

Scooter,

My 2.4L Tacoma engine has continued to show lower rates of bearing wear for the first 60,000 miles using Amsoil, so I'm fairly certain your 3.4L V-6 is still "breaking in". I would go back to the 10w-30 and see if the wear rates continue to decline - I think they will ....

There has been some shearing of the 0w-40, compared to the 10w-30, so you are chopping up the VI modifier.... All things being equal, you will get less sludge/varnish, deposit formation with the 10w-30, since it uses little or no VI modifier ....This isn't something that will show up on spectrographic oil analysis, by the way.

TooSlick

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:


There has been some shearing of the 0w-40, compared to the 10w-30, so you are chopping up the VI modifier.... All things being equal, you will get less sludge/varnish, deposit formation with the 10w-30, since it uses little or no VI modifier ....This isn't something that will show up on spectrographic oil analysis, by the way.

TooSlick

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TooSlick -

Please indulge a new guy who's trying to learn... How did you come to this conclusion from the analysis?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Yet another analysis with "interesting" viscosity

 

[Scooter]

Thanks for the comments.

I could use some advice on a methodology for further testing. In order to minimize the "break-in" factor, what might I do next? I was thinking about possibly switching back to 10w-30 for one interval with testing at 5k and 7.5k followed by another interval of 0w-40 with testing at 5k and 7.5k. Should that provide me with enough data to pick one oil over the other?

 

[MolaKule]

One possibility that hasn't been discussed is the fact that the average film thickness would be higher with the 0W40 than with the 10W30, hence slightly lower wear metals due to better hydrodynamic film thickness.

[ January 03, 2003, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[Patman]

I think that in order to really test it properly, you should run the same oil at least twice in a row. With these oils having slightly different formulations, if you ran one for one interval then the other for the next, it may not show a true representation of that oil's behavior.

So go with another interval of 0w40, then do two of the 10w30 again.