M1 ESP Formula 5W30 | 9375mil | VW Golf 1.9TDI ATD

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Blasar

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Hello!!

I´ve got my first UOA, and as a newbie, I´m sharing the results with the forum hoping to learn a bit more about motor oils.

I thank all opinions/contributions in advance.


Brand: VW
Model: Golf mk4 1.9TDI
Year: 2002
Engine: 100HP (ATD Unit-Injector)
OEM filters

Car mileage: 81033 (about 129650km)
Oil mileage: 9375 (about 15000km)

I usually do small trips (5-10km), several times a day, during the week. During the weekend, sporadically, a few miles on motorways and similar.

6rsvmw.jpg


My main concerns are:
1º- Very Low TBN: It´s awkward to me acknowledge a value so low for this oil, specially because it is an oil indicated for long-life services (18750 miles or more). I´m glad for using it for only 9375 miles, but I would like to understand the reasons for such a small number.
2º- Copper: More than double of the Universal Averages doesn´t make me happy. I´m fearing for the safety of my engine.
3º- Molybdenum and Boron: 4x and 3x (respectively) the Universal Average values are also something that doesn´t leave a big smile on my face.

I look forward to your opinions.

Best regards.
 
Hello and
welcome2.gif


Moly & Boron are good additives, so no worries there.

The TBN looks to be too low, so I would run it about 8,000 miles and run another UOA.

Take care out there!
 
Thank you, Turk, for the welcome message and the info about molybdenum and boron. As you can see, I still have a lot to learn about UOA.

What are the most common causes for a low TBN after only 9375 miles?

Thank you, in advance, for the replies.

Regards.
 
Blasar,

This is a low-SAPS oil which means it has a lower additive pack to begin with = low starting TBN. TBN depletes as oil is put in service. This oil has a starting TBN of only 5.4:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2113520#Post2113520

So, considering you ran it for over 9K miles, the TBN depletion isn't too terrible.

These oils have a lower add pack for a reason. They were designed to protect the emissions equipment on modern diesel engines (DPF). Does your 2002 1.9TDI have a DPF? If not, you may want to switch to a different oil with higher starting TBN and you may be able to run it for a longer interval. Mobil1 0w-40/TD for example.
 
Wow, tbn of 0.8! We saw poor tbn retention in use in our gas vw, which was expected. But you did go 2x what we did, and ULSD has 15ppm sulfur vs around 30 in gas, so the behavior tracks well with that considered.
 
My guess is that you are using a fuel that isn't USLD. Higher sulpher content is what depletes TBN.
 
Well, let´s say that my ignorance is getting more and more obvious.
blush.gif


In fact, my car is not equipped with a DPF, but I thought that using an oil with a newer/better VW standard (507.00, in this case), recommended for greater OCI, would bring benefits to the engine lifespan, but I´m slowly discovering that it might be a wrong assumption.

The VW standard recommended for my engine is the renowned 505.01, and most of the oils available locally that comply with it are 5W-40.
I´ve been reading some, if not all, instructive articles and topics available at BITOG, and, once again, got the idea that a 5W-30 oil would suit better the health of the engine, but it might be another wrong assumption. Therefore, I chose the Mobil 1, that complies with the 507.00.

Next time, maybe is better to choose another oil that has a bigger TBN, and complies with only the 505.01, right?
But, and for the record, let´s assume that the engine is used in "normal" conditions, the oil 5W-30 gives more protection to the engine when compared to an 5W-40, correct?

Regards.

EDIT: I don´t know the content of sulfur of the diesel that I am using here in Portugal (Europe), but I only use diesel from BP, fwiw.
 
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As far as I know your fuel should be
The reason for the lower TBN in the newer speced oil is, simply put, it isn't needed with USLD.
 
Originally Posted By: Blasar
The VW standard recommended for my engine is the renowned 505.01,

If that's the case, then it is a low SAPS spec, so the oil you're using is in fact correct.

Quote:

But, and for the record, let´s assume that the engine is used in "normal" conditions, the oil 5W-30 gives more protection to the engine when compared to an 5W-40, correct?

No. You can't really answer this without looking at additional parameters of each individual oil. If you're looking for an oil that flows better at cold startup (probably not that important in Portugal anyway), then you want an oil with high Viscosity Index and low CCS/MRV.
 
TBN does look low, so if it was my engine I would either cut the OCI to 5K miles or try a different oil. Most Germans use an 0 or 5/40 diesel oil.
The Iron is interesting, but it's the trend that is more important. If the Iron does trend upwards after the OCI is reduced then you might get better figures using an HDEO or high mileage oil with more Zinc etc.
Copper levels vary with changes in oil chemistry and the type of pipes in any oil cooler fitted. Turbos do have Cu in their bearings, but UOA is not great at spotting impending turbo failures, as most are caused by oil line feed obstructions or sudden fatigue failures of the bearings rather than particle induced or general wear.
The Moly and Boron levels are both fine, as the UA figures don't matter. Some oils contain high levels of Moly and some have zero. The same variation applies to Boron levels, so ignore the UA figures.
 
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Next time, maybe is better to choose another oil that has a bigger TBN, and complies with only the 505.01, right?
But, and for the record, let´s assume that the engine is used in "normal" conditions, the oil 5W-30 gives more protection to the engine when compared to an 5W-40, correct?


5/30 might be good for newer engines, but you are in a warm country with an older engine. 5/40 should help lower the Iron and if you pick one with plenty of additives, last longer. I would never use a DPF (Acea C3) rated oil in a VW TDI unless you have to, as most VW diesels don't like low Zinc levels.
 
Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
Check out the forums at tdiclub.com to give you more info on diesel engines especially a TDI. Give Mobil TDT 5w-40 a shot instead.


Mobil Turbo Diesel 0/40 is much easier to get in the EU and fairly cheap.
 
Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
Check out the forums at tdiclub.com to give you more info on diesel engines especially a TDI. Give Mobil TDT 5w-40 a shot instead.


Mobil Turbo Diesel 0/40 is much easier to get in the EU and fairly cheap.


Whoops, didn't notice OP was in the EU. Regardless, a 40 weight designed for diesels will likely serve the ALH/PD engine bettter than the VW 507 which is for the newer common rails.

Edit: grammar
 
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Thank you for the replies.
wink.gif


Well, let´s put this way: I´m becoming really [censored] of with myself. [censored] ignorance..
mad.gif


I was thinking that with the use of a newer and more evolved oil, the lifespan of the engine will be extended, but according with most of you, my intention may be heading the other way.

Maybe is better to forget the 507.00 and return to the 505.01, with a bigger TBN number and a more respectful presence of zinc and magnesium.

Regards.
 
Hello!!

I´ve got my second UOA on the M1 ESP Formula, and I´m sharing the results with the forum.

I thank all opinions/contributions in advance.


Brand: VW
Model: Golf mk4 1.9TDI
Year: 2002
Engine: 100HP (ATD Unit-Injector)
UFI filters

Car mileage: 90167 (about 145110km)
Oil mileage: 9132 (about 14698km)

I usually do small trips (5-10km), several times a day, during the week. During the weekend, sporadically, a few miles on motorways and similar.

2ltfx1v.jpg


This time, all the results are on the average side, and, finally, the TBN was above 1.0 (1.4).
laugh.gif


For the record, all filters used this last time were from UFI, and I can´t see any differences in the results. I don´t know if I can take any conclusion based on these figures, but is only a side note.

This time, I´ve tried a new oil (Liqui Moly Top Tec 4600 5W-30) and I´ll wait the see the results before extending the UOA.

Regards.
 
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I also think you should use a higher TBN/zinc/calcium oil such as Mobil 1 0W40. There is absolutely no reason to use a low SAPS oil unless you have to. They are significant compromises as far as TBN and anti wear ingredients.

Charlie
 
Particularly with the unit injectors you want the highest Zn/P possible. Your camshaft will thank you.

Charlie
 
Give Rotella T6 a shot. Since your TDI doesn't run using a DPF, I'd go with a thicker diesel oil. There are tons of people running the T6 or Mobil TDT in place of an official VW 505.01 oil.
 
Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
Give Rotella T6 a shot. Since your TDI doesn't run using a DPF, I'd go with a thicker diesel oil. There are tons of people running the T6 or Mobil TDT in place of an official VW 505.01 oil.


Please note OP lives in Portugal. Rotella T6 is a North American market product, like wise Mobil 1 TDT.

Charlie
 
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