M1 5W-30 "Truck & SUV" in '07 Gold Wing

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kballowe

kballowe

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Personally I like and use the Rotella 5W-40 in the blue jug for all my water-cooled motorcycles.

However....

You know that the '07 Wing owner's manual specs 10W-30 - not that I pay much attention to that.

Anyways, it was time for an oil change and the weather is getting cooler. Reached for the blue jug and found it to be out of stock. What's this? Hmmmmmmm Mobil 1 "Truck & SUV" 5W-30??? What the heck? OK, worth a try.

Finished the oil change and headed south.... Missouri-Tennessee-Mississippi-Alabama-Tennessee-Kentucky-Illinois-Missouri.

Mornings in the low 30's and afternoons in the high 50's.

Now I'm aware of all the threads cautioning about clutch slippage and all that. Didn't have any problems on this trip.

Comments?
 
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I think if the oil does not say "Energy Conserving" and it meets SG or higher, the Honda engineers, in a private moment, would say "Okay."

Did you notice the bike having any improved "pep" or fuel mileage with the 30-weight?
 
No, it DOES say "Energy Conserving". Indeed it does.

And Don - virtually everything out there is SG or higher.

I haven't been able to find anything in the spec'd viscosity (10W-30) that doesn't say "Energy Conserving" - except the stuff that Honda is selling.

Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in.... but I have this feeling that some of the products used moly in the early days in order to get that little "Energy Conserving" starburst symbol. Not all moly is created equal and maybe (maybe not) there were some problems here and there with clutch slippage. But..... from what I've found on this board the virgin oil analysis for this oil shows less than 100 ppm moly

We were two-up with all our stuff but not pulling the trailer. Most of the interstate driving was @ 75. Total 1,540 miles. Didn't notice any problems but will keep an eye on it.

Didn't notice any difference in the shifting or fuel mileage.

I'll sample it @ 3,000.
 
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Here's a photo from a WARMER trip this year!!!!

5589Smokey_Mountains.JPG



5589FJR1300-07.JPG
 
Originally Posted By: kballowe
No, it DOES say "Energy Conserving". Indeed it does.

Wow ... interesting. And it worked. Well, it must be due to superior driver skills.
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: kballowe
And Don - virtually everything out there is SG or higher.

That I knew ... and that was my point ... that pretty much everything out there meets the quality specifications (SG or higher) that Honda calls for.

The "Energy Conserving" aspect of that oil surprises me a bit. As I'm sure you know, Honda explicitly calls that out as something not to use. But you claim it works, and I believe it.

Originally Posted By: kballowe
I haven't been able to find anything in the spec'd viscosity (10W-30) that doesn't say "Energy Conserving" - except the stuff that Honda is selling.

There is a 10W-30 Rotella Triple Protection, but I'll be darned if I can locate it in any store or dealer. One dealer offered to special order it for me, but I'd end up spending $20/gallon shipping to buy a $10 gallon of oil.

Originally Posted By: kballowe
... but I have this feeling that some of the products used moly in the early days in order to get that little "Energy Conserving" starburst symbol. Not all moly is created equal and maybe (maybe not) there were some problems here and there with clutch slippage.

There's been some discussion on that point ... two different forms of moly. I'm no chemist and I can't follow it all.
 
Yeah, well the 64 dollar question is this: Is there really any difference between the 5W-30 and 5W-40?

I don't really plan to ride at temperatures much under freezing.

I can find the Mobil Delvac 10W-30 and 15W-40 on the shelves. This is also very good oil and fares just as well in the oil analysis.

Didn't know Rotella was available in a 10W-30.

Hmmmmmmmmm.......
 
Information about the oils you are discussing...

Quote:
Motorcycle oil info


Energy Conserving: The “Energy Conserving” designation applies to oils intended for gasoline-engine cars, vans, and light trucks. Widespread use of “Energy Conserving” oils may result in an overall savings of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a whole.


FRICTION MODIFIER
Definition: Additives that reduce the friction of moving engine parts or oil flow in the engine.



Though 4-cycle motorcycle engines may be considered more similar to automobile engines than 2-stroke motorcycle engines, they still have very different performance requirements. Historically, 4-stroke motorcycles have had problems with gear pitting wear in the transmissions and clutch slippage. In many cases, this can be directly attributed to the oil used. Most automotive engine oil is developed to minimize friction and maximize fuel economy. Since the oil for many 4-stroke motorcycles is circulated not only through the engine [as with an automobile], but also through the transmission and clutch, different characteristics are required of the oil. First, a certain amount of friction is necessary to prevent clutch slippage. Second, the oil needs to prevent wear and pitting in the gears of the transmission. These and other essential characteristics are addressed in the standards developed by JASO for 4-stroke engines.

As with the 2-stroke classification, the JASO 4-stroke classification is also divided into grades, MA and MB. MB is lower friction oil, while MA is relatively higher friction oil. Other than friction, the JASO 4-stroke classification tests for five other physicochemical properties: sulfated ash, evaporative loss, foaming tendency, shear stability, and high temperature high shear viscosity (HTHS). Sulfated ash can cause pre-ignition if the oil is present in the combustion chamber. It can also contribute to deposits above the piston rings and subsequent valve leakage. Evaporative loss and foaming reduce the amount of lubrication and protection in the transmission, engine, and clutch. With less shear stability, oil loses its capability of retaining original viscosity resulting in increased metal-to-metal contact and wear. High temperature high shear viscosity tests provide viscosity characteristics and data under severe temperature and shear environments.
 
A few months ago I did some study to see if the new Triple Protection Rotella met JASO-MA.

Note: The jug itself does not say so. I know it is not officially certified as JASO-MA.

But the performance numbers of the oil suggest that it very well might meet the specification.

I e-mailed Shell. They responded that they too felt that the oil just might meet JASO-MA. They were seeking approval to spend the money to test for JASO-MA. No word on that yet.
 
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
A few months ago I did some study to see if the new Triple Protection Rotella met JASO-MA.

Note: The jug itself does not say so. I know it is not officially certified as JASO-MA.

But the performance numbers of the oil suggest that it very well might meet the specification.

I e-mailed Shell. They responded that they too felt that the oil just might meet JASO-MA. They were seeking approval to spend the money to test for JASO-MA. No word on that yet.



Good stuff, ain't it?
 
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Good stuff, ain't it?

I believe it is ... yet I find myself falling prey at times to the notion that for some hidden and mysterious reason I should think twice about using it in my Wing. It's a silly, irrational thought, I know. This is why I asked the question over on the UOA forum about whether a UOA could look good yet problems are lurking -- because the UOAs I've done with Rotella have all come back just dandy.
 
Don,

I know exactly what you're talking about. The idea that maybe a UOA doesn't tell the whole story.

I found an interesting situation on Harleys. Oil "A" comes back with a better oil analysis that oil "B", but the magnetic drain plug has considerable more particulate matter with oil "A". Oil "C" comes back with an average oil analysis, but there is virtually no particulate matter on the magnetic drain plug.

At one time we were sampling nine Harleys and eleven various water-cooled bikes. And everything from Fram, OEM, Purolator, Bosch, and SuperTech. Funny how the filter didn't seem to make any difference.

The wild card here is my buddy's 2001 Ultra Classic with 118,000 miles on conventional Harley oil & filter changed at 3,000 mile intervals. The cam chain tensioners were replaced at 70,000 and looked good for the mileage. That's the extent of the engine work (so far).

Ran into a fella with a GL1500 and 140,xxx miles on it. Nothing but Genuine Honda oil (conventional) changed every 8,000 miles at the local dealer.

I'm starting to believe that we could run just about anything and get away with it.

Got a guy in the local HOG Chapter with a Heritage SoftTail right at 100,000 and his wife's Sportster has 70,000+. Both running Harley conventional oil & filter with 2,500 mile change intervals.

.....and here I am wondering about Mobil 1 5W-30 for a winter fill in a Gold Wing.

I think I'll go have a beer.
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Don,

I know exactly what you're talking about. The idea that maybe a UOA doesn't tell the whole story.

I found an interesting situation on Harleys. Oil "A" comes back with a better oil analysis that oil "B", but the magnetic drain plug has considerable more particulate matter with oil "A". Oil "C" comes back with an average oil analysis, but there is virtually no particulate matter on the magnetic drain plug.

Yes indeed. I've been trying to get the word out to people on this subject of UOAs and actual wear. Thanks for helping.
 
Originally Posted By: g56
Not a big deal, but Mobil 1 Truck and SUV has reduced levels of phosphorus (ZDDP) compared to a lot of the other oils that are used in motorcycles, it's one of the new ones with 800 ppm or lower levels of phosphorus (ZDDP).

Here's a chart showing phosphorus levels in Mobil 1 oils, on the chart it's listed as 0.08/L: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf



Yeah, see - I thought ZDDP was Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate and that the the zinc and phosphorus levels were shown separately. Had never really thought of "ZDDP" as phosphorus. Always thought of it as zinc.

But hey, I'm willing to learn something new.

wink.gif


Don't think it'll be a problem at my change intervals but will sample to see.

Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Yeah, see - I thought ZDDP was Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate and that the the zinc and phosphorus levels were shown separately. Had never really thought of "ZDDP" as phosphorus. Always thought of it as zinc.

But hey, I'm willing to learn something new.

wink.gif


Don't think it'll be a problem at my change intervals but will sample to see.

Thanks


Here's where I got the information:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_Motor_Oils.aspx

As mentioned, I doubt that it will really make any difference in the real world.
 
Well with a name like Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate it just makes a fella want to call it zinc.

Looking at the 15W-50 in the table I'm thinking it'll make a good oil for air-cooled motorcycles. Not as much zinc and phosphorus as the V-Twin 20W-50, but still respectable. With the M1 V-Twin and the Amsoil at $9 a quart it's starting to look better all time.
wink.gif
 
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