M1 0w20 AFE, 6200 miles, 2006 Civic

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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Why not pull the 4 injectors and send them to Trav? If they're the problem they won't be in very short order. If I were looking to keep car for another 4 years that's what I'd do. It will be money well spent and resolve the issue immediately.


I agree to this. Proper maintenance is crucial to any vehicle. Also is this KMs or miles?
 
It's miles. This oil had just under 10,000 km on it and the car has just over 231,000 km on it.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
I like the Gumout line of products too, that's what I've always used in the past. I went out tonight and filled up the tank and put in a bottle of Gumout Regane Complete Fuel System cleaner and I will also do a tankful with the High Mileage stuff above, then one with Regane All in One and then another tankful with Gumout injector cleaner. I figure I might as well mix it up with a few of their different products.

And after giving it some thought, I will be sticking with synthetic oil as I think it can probably handle fuel dilution better than conventional oil would.


To be honest I did not compare PEA in Techron vs the Gumout … was already using Techron before each 5K oil change and more … fuel was Exxon, Shell or Chevron … so might be coincidental but something cleared and runs smooth as silk …
 
Hey PATMAN, do you know what method the lab used to check your fuel dilution? I suspect this may have been done using the FTIR method which is not at all a great method for judging fuel dilution in oil. This method can be tricked by different brand lube chemistry therefore giving a false result or not a direct correlation to the actual fuel that is present. You want to find out if this was done using gastro chromatography (GC for short). This method is what should be used to detect the amount of fuel in an engine oil. You might be pleasantly surprised to see that your lowered viscosity (which in real life is not effecting your engine components at this point) may be due to shear (some oil brands are more prone to do this) as opposed to fuel dilution. Seems a bit high for this application if you ask me and I analyze hundreds of engine oil samples and results everyday.
 
On the report it lists that they calculate the fuel by infared. (it also lists ASTM D3524 beside the fuel %)

You may be onto something here, because I'm looking back at old reports and I have another report where I went almost the exact same distance (10,300km) and there was no fuel shown in the oil at all but the final viscosity was very close to this report, at 6.8cst at 100c.

And even though I have said recently that I wanted to stick with 0w20 in this engine, I am now starting to lean towards running 0w30 or 5w30.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
The best fuel system cleaner on the market is Redline SP1. It's an actual cleaning detergent. Techron is just a chemical cleaner.


Also PEA … just more % or what?
 
Originally Posted By: DJ_Crankshaft
Hey PATMAN, do you know what method the lab used to check your fuel dilution? I suspect this may have been done using the FTIR method which is not at all a great method for judging fuel dilution in oil. This method can be tricked by different brand lube chemistry therefore giving a false result or not a direct correlation to the actual fuel that is present. You want to find out if this was done using gastro chromatography (GC for short). This method is what should be used to detect the amount of fuel in an engine oil. You might be pleasantly surprised to see that your lowered viscosity (which in real life is not effecting your engine components at this point) may be due to shear (some oil brands are more prone to do this) as opposed to fuel dilution. Seems a bit high for this application if you ask me and I analyze hundreds of engine oil samples and results everyday.


At least the OP responded to your post.
 
That ASTM method would be related to GC, however Infrared is the FTIR method so they may list both but results are not really consistent with GC in my opinion. The range for a 20 wt oil for viscosity at 100 is 5.6cSt to 9.2cSt. Fuel dilution at 2% is marginal and usually may account for a 1cSt to 2cSt drop (more or less depending on application but in general this is norm). 4% or higher is critical and around 8 to 10% you can see a significant drop in fuel dilution which will take a 40wt down to a 20 wt. So you see at 8% FD you should see something far under a 20 wt, but you would have a serious issue in which it would show like gas mileage, hard starting, injectors that never stop leaking (google newer ford commercial trucks injector leaking, now thats a problem 8-10% all day). Also check your new oil for comparison and this will knock out a lot of speculation if fuel dilution is accurate or not.
 
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver


At least the OP responded to your post.


What are you talking about? What did you want me to say to your last post? There really wasn't any question for me there.
confused2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: DJ_Crankshaft
You want to find out if this was done using gastro chromatography (GC for short). This method is what should be used to detect the amount of fuel in an engine oil.


Don't you find that corn and tomato seeds cause unacceptable standard deviations with that method?

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: DJ_Crankshaft
So you see at 8% FD you should see something far under a 20 wt, but you would have a serious issue in which it would show like gas mileage, hard starting, injectors that never stop leaking


That is the strange thing here too, I'm not seeing any evidence of a problem with the way my engine is running. It still gets 45 MPG on the highway (I have a fully calibrated Scangauge II) and the engine fires up easily even when sitting a long time. So I'm definitely going to keep an eye on things here, but I am leaning towards this being more of a false read.
 
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
As far as oil, I would run a 5w-30,


How about Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30? It's 10.3 cst at 100c, so it's on the lower end of the 30 weight range.
 
Sometimes this method has some weird swings but you must be able to see them, adjust, and retest just like any other piece of sensitive test equipment that requires calibration and monitoring.
 
A 30 weight oil range is 9.3 - 12.4 cSt, so you are just fine. Usually it takes a really big drop or increase in viscosity to cause an issue. I have seen 30wt engines run at the 20wt level for a long time (i dont recommend it if possible) and not cause an issue. Most of the time people have no clue that their oil viscosity has decreased. And on the rare chance they do get an oil analysis they think the motor is about to blow, but this just is not the case. Your oil will usually outlast your filter unless you have: serious engine issues, its really really old, or you live in a dusty or salty environment. These aspects speed up the degradation process.
 
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
The best fuel system cleaner on the market is Redline SP1. It's an actual cleaning detergent. Techron is just a chemical cleaner.

I humbly disagree with you. IMO BG44K is a better fuel injector/system cleaner.
 
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