M1 0W-40

[loneryder]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by StevieC
It's really a thick 30wt oil from what I have read.


That phrasing (not directed at you specifically) drives me nuts. The oil is in the xW-40 range, ergo, it is a 40. Yes, it is on the lower end of the range assigned to the grade, just like Castrol Euro 0w-30 is on the upper end of the xW-30 range. However, just like GC isn't "really a thin 40", M1 0w-40 and GC 0w-40 aren't "really a thick 30".

It's like saying my GC and your Highlander are "really a CUV" because they are closer to the size of an Escape than they are to a Suburban or Expedition.


I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what is the real weight of a "thin 40" or a "thick 30". What is meant by these phrases? Again, not directed at StevieC..

 

[dblshock]

I think it's hi or low in the specific range.

 

[StevieC]

There is a range of CST for SAE Weights. So it would be in that end. I know this wasn't directed at me but I wanted to post this chart to help answer the question.

 

[RDY4WAR]

A 30 grade oil has a kinematic viscosity @ 100*C of 9.3 to 12.4 cSt. A 40 grade oil is 12.5 to 16.2 cSt. So you can have two oils, 12.4 cSt and 12.5 cSt, one a thick 30 grade and other a thin 40 grade, though they'd pour pretty much identical.

 

[buster]

M1 ESP 0w40 would be my choice for a DI engine.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Here is a recent UOA of M1 0w40 FS, not to be confused with the ESP formulation. The last two samples are Mobil 1 0w-40 Full Synthetic. The oldest one is Mobil 1 5w30 High Mileage of an older API SL vintage. The latest sample sheared down a little, but not a lot. The earlier sample had some fuel dilution that affected the KV 100 viscosity. Compare the advertised virgin KV100 of 12.9 to these figures if you care to, and note that Blackstone still puts the latest result within the acceptable range.

It's also worth noting that the wear numbers for Al and Fe are at half the universal averages.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Astro_Guy
Here is a recent UOA of M1 0w40 FS, not to be confused with the ESP formulation. The last two samples are Mobil 1 0w-40 Full Synthetic. The oldest one is Mobil 1 5w30 High Mileage of an older API SL vintage. The latest sample sheared down a little, but not a lot. The earlier sample had some fuel dilution that affected the KV 100 viscosity. Compare the advertised virgin KV100 of 12.9 to these figures if you care to, and note that Blackstone still puts the latest result within the acceptable range.

It's also worth noting that the wear numbers for Al and Fe are at half the universal averages.


FWIW, the flashpoint in all three runs points to varying levels of fuel dilution.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by loneryder
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what is the real weight of a "thin 40" or a "thick 30". What is meant by these phrases? Again, not directed at StevieC..


CATERHAM and aehaas started that calling oils like Redline's 5W20 "really a 30" because it's HTHS exceeded the minimum spec for a 30 grade.

And it caught on...

Similarly "5W30s always shear down to 20s, so start at 20 is fine in an engine that calls for 30".

RE M1 0W40, the formula has changed markedly over the years. 15 years ago it would rapidly drop into 30 territory and climb back to 40...it was rumoured to be how they could run 35,000km in Mercs and the like.

Back then the minimum HTHS for an xW40 was 2.9, same as the 30s, not that they were all that close to the minimum (the 40s that is).

 

[vortex64]

I have a hard time grasping the specs of 0W-xx oils. Help me understand...

At first glance one is led to believe that these oils are typically "thinner" than other oils at 40C
But when I look at the viscosity @ 40C and @ 100C of the various weights of Mobil 1 oils there are inconsistencies.
Below is data from Mobil.

For example there is NOT a lot of differences between the 0w-30, 10w-30, and 5w-30.
..and 5w-30 is the thinner at 40C than the 0w-30

But there is a big difference between the 0w-40 and 5w-40.
..0w-40 IS much thinner at 40C.

What am I missing here?


0W-40
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 12.9
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 70.8

5W-40
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 13.7
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 80

5W-30
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 11.0
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 61.7

10W-30
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 10.1
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 63.2

0W-30
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 10.9
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 62.9

5W-20
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 8.9
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 49.8

10W-30
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 10.1
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 63.2

 

[JAG]

The viscosity grades are determined by the SAE J300 table. An xW-Y viscosity grade has to meet the xW criteria AND the Y criteria. The first part is the winter criteria and the Y is the mid to high temp. criteria. The winter criteria is at rather insanely cold temperatures and around those temperatures are where the slope of the viscosity vs temperature curve is very high. A small change in temperature comes with a huge change in viscosity. Check out the table and see if you have any more questions.
https://www.widman.biz/English/Tables/J300.html

 

[1JZ_E46]

cSt viscosity at 100C ("KV100") is a rather useless figure. HTHS is the number that actually means something inside an engine.

 

[vortex64]

Ok, fine. But -35C does not mean anything to me or 90% of the rest of the folks on the planet.

Given the two points on the viscosity curve and the viscosity index I can extrapolate what the viscosities will be at any other temperature.

So my confusion still persist.

Let me run my spreadsheet on the Mobil 1 numbers and extrapolate viscosity to temperatures that are meaningful to me.

I don't understand why they choose to do 40C and 100C.
I think most people would want to know what is it at -17C (0F) and what is it at 91C (195F)

I'll be back...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by vortex64
Ok, fine. But -35C does not mean anything to me or 90% of the rest of the folks on the planet.

Given the two points on the viscosity curve and the viscosity index I can extrapolate what the viscosities will be at any other temperature.

So my confusion still persist.

Let me run my spreadsheet on the Mobil 1 numbers and extrapolate viscosity to temperatures that are meaningful to me.

I don't understand why they choose to do 40C and 100C.
I think most people would want to know what is it at -17C (0F) and what is it at 91C (195F)

I'll be back...



Viscosity calculators become inaccurate much below 0C FYI.

 

[Thugzy]

Here is a UOA of M1 0W40 in my Gen2 3.5EB Dual Injection specd for 5W30. Engine is still breaking in

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...n2-m1-0w40-euro-5-star-tuned#Post4882458

 

[widman]

Originally Posted by vortex64
Ok, fine. But -35C does not mean anything to me or 90% of the rest of the folks on the planet.

Given the two points on the viscosity curve and the viscosity index I can extrapolate what the viscosities will be at any other temperature.

So my confusion still persist.

Let me run my spreadsheet on the Mobil 1 numbers and extrapolate viscosity to temperatures that are meaningful to me.

I don't understand why they choose to do 40C and 100C.
I think most people would want to know what is it at -17C (0F) and what is it at 91C (195F)

I'll be back...



40ºC is chosen as it is a standard measurement for industrial use, and relates well to normal hydraulic and gear boxes, while 100ºC Gives you a good range for engines.

Then, knowing those two points, and since they are far enough apart, you can extrapolate, as I do in the graphs and some other calculators on the page, what the viscosity is in the rest of the temperatures, with the exception of modifications at real low temperatures, where the pour point improvers skew that tail end to that it doesn't go as high (thick) as it would without the modifier.

On the graph, you can see what the viscosity is in your coldest temperatures.

And I agree, I't rather see HTHS on the labels, but they aren't even listed on a lot of spec sheets.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by buster
M1 ESP 0w40 would be my choice for a DI engine.
If it is not at Walmart it doesn't exist !

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by JAG
ACEA is going to address LSPI in the future, if I recall correctly. Higher viscosity was found to very slightly increase LSPI, so I don't see how it has anything to do with CAFE / thinner oils.


https://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/april-2018/acea-sequences-revisions-underway
ACEA Sequences revisions underway
Quote
Lubricants have been found to have an impact on LSPI. This has led to the development of an ASTM LSPI test for the ILSAC GF-6 specification, and this test is now also being considered for introduction into the ACEA Sequences.