Lubrizol Q&A - GDI Engines

[Lubrizol]

Welcome to the Lubrizol Q&A! As a leading formulator of additive technology for passenger car engine oils, we strive to improve efficiency and deliver higher performance to meet the needs of engine manufacturers, oil marketers and vehicle owners around the world.

We've created this post to help BITOG members like you share your knowledge and experience with other experts in the field. We plan to engage you in a series of questions relating to vehicle service and maintenance and look forward to your comments and questions.

To best appreciate your area of expertise, please begin all responses with the category that best describes you from the list below.
Example Response: Service, Most of the customers I see at my shop know the type of engine in the car.

• Marketer - Work for Engine Oil Manufacturer/Marketer
• Sales - Employed by Retailer/Auto Parts Store
• Service - Service Provider or Technician at Dealership/Maintenance Shop/Express Oil Change
• Owner - Vehicle Owner or Driver

Our first question is linked here - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4704274/Lubrizol_Q&A_-_GDI_Eng#Post4704274. Thanks for your responses!

Our second question is below:

Question 2- Have you experienced any GDI engine performance issues that are different from PFI (port fuel injection) engines?

 

[DavidJones]

My 2016 F150 is the 2.7 "motor". No performance issues of any kind. I push the starter button, the engine fires and I drive off. The internet is full of doomsday talk concerning the 2.7, but the 2.7's I'm aware of have been completely trouble free.

 

[Danh]

Fuel dilution, fuel dilution, fuel dilution. Increasing sump levels even with highway driving; solution seems to be 91/93octane fuel even though car (DI Honda)is spec’d for 87. Used oil analyses regularly report dilution >5% and oil diluted out of grade. And if you want more stories, spend some time in the 2017/18 section of CRVownersclub.com.

Some fuel dilution is inevitable with DI engines we guess, but how much is too much? Manufacturers silent on the subject, refusing to even admit it could occur. And might some of this go away with introduction of SN Plus oils that allow less-aggressive tuning to prevent LSPI? Who knows?

Nature (and BITOG) abhors a vacuum, but that’s what we have.

The only other performance problem I notice is a slight low-speed acceleration flat spot that I gather is also typical. I guess that’s why Toyota, for one, is going with a hybrid port/direct injection system.

On the plus side, there does seem to be a fuel economy benefit despite what winds up spending time in the sump...

 

[69Torino]

I am a service technician.

Not that it qualifies me to speak on tribology, however I know what I see. DI is hard on engine hard parts. The general idea is to increase power output without affecting economy. Engines are making more power than they ever have, and if we are comparing apples to oranges, my argument would be that with all of this modern Direct Injection technology why does my 2015 Optima get worse fuel mileage than my ‘92 Mercury Capri? Never mind the fact that the Optima makes 74 more horsepower and both are inline four cylinders.

I bring this up because if that 1.3 Liter Mazda engine that’s in the Capri was built in 2015, it would likely put out a little more horsepower, right? WRONG

THe 2.4 in the Kia makes 174 HP. The 1.3 in the Capri makes 100HP. If you sit down and do the math, these engines have the EXACT horsepower to displacement ratio!!! Advances in technology? I think not. It’s your government pushing car manufacturers to be cleaner, more environmentally friendly, reduce carbon footprint etc. it’s a bunch of unnecessary bologna. The Mazda engine in the Capri is elementarily simple, and reliable as a rock. The 2.4 GDI Kia is plagued with problems directly and indirectly associated with DI.

When this car goes back at the end of the lease, I will NEVER buy another DI car again. Hopefully manufacturers will follow the examples set forth by a few and run port injection and DI combined, at the very least. Or scrap DI altogether. It’s a pain to diagnose, repair and live with.

/rant.

 

[skyactiv]

MY VW has a gasoline direct injected turbocharged engine which I cleaned the intake valves on at 82K miles.

I am a journeyman semi mechanic by trade and use to be an auto mechanic before switching to heavy duty trucks.

What I would like LUBRIZOL to do is invent and market an additive package to oil blenders that uses
modern chemistry and eliminates or greatly reduces GDI related deposits.
Get rid of the ash content or greatly reduce it in the oil.
Than get with the appropriate people (API??) to get the OEM's to adopt a new requirement for such engines.
Or it will be a wasted effort.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv


What I would like LUBRIZOL to do is invent and market an additive package to oil blenders that uses
modern chemistry and eliminates or greatly reduces GDI related deposits.
Get rid of the ash content or greatly reduce it in the oil.




That's one of the things I really like about using Mobil 1 5w30 ESP in my direct injected Corvette, it has a super low sulphated ash content of only 0.6%

 

[1JZ_E46]

Owner: We are considering getting a direct injected Mini Cooper (PSA N18 engine). What is more effective at keeping intake ports/valves clean?... using a low-SAPS formula or keeping the oil "fresh" (e.g. 3-5k mile oil change intervals)? From a couple studies I have seen, soot particles in oil play a far bigger role in creating deposits than SAPS content.

 

[Nyquist]

I'm under the category of "Owner".

My wife and I purchased a 2017 Chevrolet Cruze Hatchback with the 1.4L turbo-charged direct-injected engine in December of 2017. It makes solid power and offers respectable fuel economy. Also, my wife likes it a lot.

We have not experienced any problems with this platform yet, but I worry about how well the oil will be able to protect things like the turbo bearing and parts related to the VVT in addition to any expected valve deposits. I plan on running a couple of UOAs once the break-in period is over. I'm expecting that we will have to put at least one new turbo and clean the valves twice if we keep it for 150,000 miles. For reference, we traded in a 2008 Cobalt that had 185,000 miles on it with no problems.

We previously owned a 2011 Equinox with the 2.4L engine, and that thrashed oil. It was one of the reasons we traded it in during a favorable buying period in 2015 when we picked up a Traverse. I have fewer concerns about the 3.6L engine in the Traverse as that engine has sort of turned into GM's bread and butter engine.

A question I have with regards to burn-off is whether the burn-off occurs early in the oil's service life or later. If I knew when the expected peak burn-off occurred, that may make me adjust the length of time I run an oil.

 

[dailydriver]

I am the owner of a 2016 EcoBoost (1.6 liter turbo GDI) Fiesta ST.

I would like to know precisely which additives, and in what combinations/concentrations are the most effective in helping to combat LSPI, and WHY/HOW they are effective.

I only have about 8500 miles on this vehicle so far, so no problems with intake valve deposits so far.

I NEVER EVER 'lug' this engine, use only Shell VPower 93 fuel, and use ONLY FULLY SYNTHETIC, low NOACK, lower SA, and higher moly/ZDDP/tungsten and/or titanium add pack oils, changed VERY frequently (on my 4th OCI so far), along with a PCV side oil catch can/air-oil separator, so hopefully no LSPI events.