LSjr Tests VOA of 20 yr old Valvoline & 40 yr old Mobil 1 Oil. HPL tests Anti-Foam in Gear Oil.

Be specific. To what point are you objecting? Water absorption? Oxidation?

Otherwise, your comment is just “grumpy old man needs his coffee”.
I figured the sharper than me guys (most folks here) would be all over this.


OK just for a second read and follow..........

Assume the old oil from 1990 never aged. Preserved perfectly in time. Run an oxidation test. Number is 20 (just made that up for example)

Now run a test on the oil, with same name in 2024. Run an oxidation test. Number is 10. (just made that up for example)

We can really conclude nothing solid, other than yes the numbers ARE different. Why would this be?

The oxidation number has just as much to do with the initial oil constituents than it does with aging. A high ester oil will have a high oxidation number. Oxidation tests are basically only useful to compare the EXACT same virgin oil, NEW then USED, to see delta oxidation.

This is not the first time this showboat has been wrong. We are wise here not to follow him, IMHO. BITOG should gently point out Lake Speed's inaccuracies.
 
I figured the sharper than me guys (most folks here) would be all over this.


OK just for a second read and follow..........

Assume the old oil from 1990 never aged. Preserved perfectly in time. Run an oxidation test. Number is 20 (just made that up for example)

Now run a test on the oil, with same name in 2024. Run an oxidation test. Number is 10. (just made that up for example)

We can really conclude nothing solid, other than yes the numbers ARE different. Why would this be?

The oxidation number has just as much to do with the initial oil constituents than it does with aging. A high ester oil will have a high oxidation number. Oxidation tests are basically only useful to compare the EXACT same virgin oil, NEW then USED, to see delta oxidation.

This is not the first time this showboat has been wrong. We are wise here not to follow him, IMHO. BITOG should gently point out Lake Speed's inaccuracies.
Did you note a comment he flashed on the screen during the video was from a *gulp*....Project Farm video? 🤣 Will LSJ videos be banned as PF ones were?
 
I figured the sharper than me guys (most folks here) would be all over this.


OK just for a second read and follow..........

Assume the old oil from 1990 never aged. Preserved perfectly in time. Run an oxidation test. Number is 20 (just made that up for example)

Now run a test on the oil, with same name in 2024. Run an oxidation test. Number is 10. (just made that up for example)

We can really conclude nothing solid, other than yes the numbers ARE different. Why would this be?

The oxidation number has just as much to do with the initial oil constituents than it does with aging. A high ester oil will have a high oxidation number. Oxidation tests are basically only useful to compare the EXACT same virgin oil, NEW then USED, to see delta oxidation.

This is not the first time this showboat has been wrong. We are wise here not to follow him, IMHO. BITOG should gently point out Lake Speed's inaccuracies.
The old oil had oxidation values around 65 and 100, respectively. Are those values within a range explained by expected formulation differences?
 
I don't get the fuss over the oxidation value. It tends to show a general trend and that oil doesn't have ester. It seems like a desperate attempt to sling mud to me. I see comments so not disabled. 🤷‍♂️

Great video. There's more to come.
Not slinging mud.

He is wrong about the oxidation.

I'm not advocating using old oil, so don't take it that way.

The old oil had oxidation values around 65 and 100, respectively. Are those values within a range explained by formulation differences?
We cannot know unless someone ran a virgin sample back when (this could be possible)
 
We cannot know unless someone ran a virgin sample back when (this could be possible)
So if I understand you correctly, you’re essentially saying it is possible the old oils had enough extra ester to have higher oxidation by 50-90. Is it parsimonious to conclude that?
 
So if I understand you correctly, you’re essentially saying it is possible the old oils had enough extra ester to have higher oxidation by 50-90. Is it parsimonious to conclude that?
We simply don't know. There could be another additive or base oil, not just ester.

Again I have no doubt the oil components did oxidize, we just don't know how much. Comparing the numbers of the two oils with changed formulas won't get a useful number.
 
I figured the sharper than me guys (most folks here) would be all over this.


OK just for a second read and follow..........

Assume the old oil from 1990 never aged. Preserved perfectly in time. Run an oxidation test. Number is 20 (just made that up for example)

Now run a test on the oil, with same name in 2024. Run an oxidation test. Number is 10. (just made that up for example)

We can really conclude nothing solid, other than yes the numbers ARE different. Why would this be?

The oxidation number has just as much to do with the initial oil constituents than it does with aging. A high ester oil will have a high oxidation number. Oxidation tests are basically only useful to compare the EXACT same virgin oil, NEW then USED, to see delta oxidation.

This is not the first time this showboat has been wrong. We are wise here not to follow him, IMHO. BITOG should gently point out Lake Speed's inaccuracies.
Water causes oxidation. Take the M1 in the can as an example. We know it has no ester because M1 wasn't using it at the time.

The degree of oxidation is irrelevant because the oxidation number is on the high side and there's water in the oil. End of story.
 
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I figured the sharper than me guys (most folks here) would be all over this.


OK just for a second read and follow..........

Assume the old oil from 1990 never aged. Preserved perfectly in time. Run an oxidation test. Number is 20 (just made that up for example)

Now run a test on the oil, with same name in 2024. Run an oxidation test. Number is 10. (just made that up for example)

We can really conclude nothing solid, other than yes the numbers ARE different. Why would this be?

The oxidation number has just as much to do with the initial oil constituents than it does with aging. A high ester oil will have a high oxidation number. Oxidation tests are basically only useful to compare the EXACT same virgin oil, NEW then USED, to see delta oxidation.

This is not the first time this showboat has been wrong. We are wise here not to follow him, IMHO. BITOG should gently point out Lake Speed's inaccuracies.
It is not my purview to moderate technical points.

I rely on experienced people, like you, to make them. Peer review and discussion is both powerful and the core of this site.

I simply moderate behavior. I don’t like veiled posts, or innuendo.
And I really don’t like bashing.

I would rather someone with your experience make the detailed technical point from which we all benefit.

So, thank you for explaining that. I appreciate it.
 
Water causes oxidation. Take the M1 in the can as an example. We know it has no ester because M1 wasn't using it at the time.

The degree of oxidation is irrelevant because the oxidation number if on the high side and there's water in the oil. End of story.
Water can contribute to oxidation, as can air. You are 100% sure no esters in Mobil1 at that time? I am not so sure. Plus we don't know what else may have contrubuted.

Again I'm not saying the oil isn't shot, but why defend his POV? He is trying to come off as technical. He could have simply said what I am saying now.
 
Water can contribute to oxidation, as can air. You are 100% sure no esters in Mobil1 at that time? I am not so sure. Plus we don't know what else may have contrubuted.

Again I'm not saying the oil isn't shot, but why defend his POV? He is trying to come off as technical. He could have simply said what I am saying now.
He’s also addressing a broad audience that may not be so technical. He simply may not want to confuse anyone by qualifying that statement. It’s likely those oxidation values are elevated over the original numbers.
 
Water can contribute to oxidation, as can air. You are 100% sure no esters in Mobil1 at that time? I am not so sure. Plus we don't know what else may have contrubuted.

Again I'm not saying the oil isn't shot, but why defend his POV? He is trying to come off as technical. He could have simply said what I am saying now.
When two assumptions have unequal likelihoods, the more likely assumption is usually better.
 
He’s also not addressing a highly technical audience and may not want to confuse anyone by qualifying that statement. It’s quite likely those oxidation values are elevated over the original numbers.
You have a point but listen to his exact words.

He wants to be everyone’s oil expert in a long video he should break it down. Someone could now get a full analysis on their ester oil and get a freak on
 
Feeling attacked?
Nah, deflecting an amateur junk answer when i'm trying to get a tribologist to answer the next steps, reviving 40 year old oil. I dont accept the "bad oil" answer from Lake Speed.
 
Water can contribute to oxidation, as can air. You are 100% sure no esters in Mobil1 at that time? I am not so sure. Plus we don't know what else may have contrubuted.

Again I'm not saying the oil isn't shot, but why defend his POV? He is trying to come off as technical. He could have simply said what I am saying now.
Per LS that particular 1970's era of M1 was PAO with Gr1 as the carrier. In any case I don't know what type of esters were used 20 yrs ago but as you know some esters oxidize in the presence of water. I get what you're saying but how is it relevant? The anti-foaming agent is shot and no mixing will fix it, TAN is high, water is present, oxidation is high. Circa 2000 weren't Castrol and M1 the only PAO/Ester brands?
 
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