LSJr ETHANOL: Higher OCTANE, Higher RISK?

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LSJr released a short-for-him YT video on ethanol and its effects on engines, with special emphasis on those with carburetors. He touches on the corrosive effects of ethanol and that ASTM standards only require fuel to be tested on its effects of copper and not other metals. Ethanol requires a higher air to fuel ratio, which means you have to burn more fuel to go the same distance, and references a study done on ethanol's effects on tribofilm thickness and friction on engine oils.

 
Yet the body on my Midwestern vehicles will disappear long before the engine is destroyed by ethanol.

If ethanol was such a mechanical disaster it would be very obvious we shouldn’t use it as a fuel as cars (and other engines) would prematurely head to the junkyard. That is not happening.
 
Does he mention the corrosion is caused by water not EtOH itself?
He talks about it being hygroscopic, and when NASCAR switched to E15, JGR had to build a climate-controlled room to store the fuel drums because of it. Seems the drums would have been sealed, but I guess they have to be opened at some point. :unsure:
 
LS Jr. dives into the the e-85 octane rating as well as how it interacts with oil & engine wear. His Nascar experience switching from leaded fuel to e-15 they noticed they were having to rebuild carburetors after every race. Used non ethanol fuel to flush the carbs out before storing them to prevent breakdowns. Ethanol is an alcohol & is mainly derived from corn. A renewable fuel to reduce emissions.

Ethanol is oxygenated & that oxygen increases the octane in fuel. Unfortunately, that same oxygen in that ethanol is responsible for the corrosion they seen in Joe Gibbs racing. Some of that fuel that causes corrosion on other than copper but there are no ASTM test methods to evaluate that effect. Depending on the concentration of the ethanol it will corrode Aluminum, zinc, steel, etc. Guess what carburetors are made from? Aluminum of course!

Ethanol is Hygroscopic and has a tendency to absorb moisture from the air. Probably not a good idea for boat applications or other engines around water sources. Rust on valves & other issues were happening. LS Jr team had to move their stored ethanol fuel to a climate controlled environment to stop this happening. Ethanol requires a richer air/fuel mixture than gasoline which will you'll end up burning more ethanol for the same amount of distance. Higher fuel consumption means a higher fuel dilution ratio which means a shorter oil life (Why OEM's recommend changing oil sooner when using ethanol fuels in higher concentrations than specified).

MTM Slim device allows you to see film formation (oil film thickness) which allows you to measure how long it takes to see ethanol effects that break down that tribofilm (film thickness). If this ethanol gets mixed with oil then it starts to cause higher wear.

What to do about it?
Prevent using ethanol fuels on anything with a carburetor or marine applications. Seek out ethanol free fuels available at your local stations.

 
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I watched it earlier. There's a couple things I wish would've been said. Using E10 (or E15 if jetting can accommodate it) in a carburetor is fine if you go through it in a reasonable amount of time. He hinted at that but didn't elaborate. Some people get bent out of shape over "gotta have ethanol free". During the Helene clean up last year, some people were complaining that they couldn't run their generators, chainsaws, etc... because there was no ethanol free fuel available. They honestly believed the engine would suffer instant damage if they cranked it up on E10, and were putting gas stations (and anyone convenient) on blast for not supplying ethanol free fuel. Some were blaming the government for seeding the storm to be as bad as it was because they want us dead, and for those that survived, we only get ethanol fuel because they want your generators to die so we suffer. It was as hysterical as it was sad.

Higher ethanol percentage putting more ethanol in the oil is only an issue if you short trip the engine. Ethanol boils at 174°F. If you drive it long enough for the oil to reach full operating temp, it won't be a problem. In fact, I would say you'd see less fuel dilution with E85 than E10 in an engine that sees full temp as 80-90% of the fuel will be evaporated out as opposed to only ~50% of the fuel with E10 or ethanol free.
 
I watched it earlier. There's a couple things I wish would've been said. Using E10 (or E15 if jetting can accommodate it) in a carburetor is fine if you go through it in a reasonable amount of time. He hinted at that but didn't elaborate. Some people get bent out of shape over "gotta have ethanol free". During the Helene clean up last year, some people were complaining that they couldn't run their generators, chainsaws, etc... because there was no ethanol free fuel available. They honestly believed the engine would suffer instant damage if they cranked it up on E10, and were putting gas stations (and anyone convenient) on blast for not supplying ethanol free fuel. Some were blaming the government for seeding the storm to be as bad as it was because they want us dead, and for those that survived, we only get ethanol fuel because they want your generators to die so we suffer. It was as hysterical as it was sad.
Several years ago I bought a Dewalt pressure washer having a Honda engine. It had stickers and labels all over it saying if you didn't use a very specific stabilizer, your warranty may be voided. I wish I'd kept the documents. I run non-ethanol fuel in it. It's the only gas-powered tool I have remaining.

I wouldn't hesitate to use E10 if it's what's on hand, but wouldn't want to store it very long.
 
Disclaimer... I didn't watch the video.

It's almost funny that NASCAR teams struggled with storing fuel and the other issues mentioned, yet sprint car, open wheel modified, and drag racers have been using methanol almost forever and managed to get by with these issues.

Most of the issue with ethanol is the rhetoric and hype. It's bad for this and bad for that, but there are many, many cars using it on a daily basis. Other countries like Brazil, have way higher ethanol use than the US. Most of the ethanol in Brazil is from sugarcane.
 
Once again, the video masters the obvious ...

Allow me to summarize what it took him 7 minutes to say:
- Ethanol in fuel attracts/absorbs moisture and combines with oxygen to accelerate corrosion, etc
- Ethanol is detrimental to oil film thickness and the tribochemical boundary layer

Is this really news to any informed BITOGer?
 
Once again, LSJr is a master of the obvious ...

Allow me to summarize what it took him 7 minutes to say:
- Ethanol in fuel attracts/absorbs moisture and combines with oxygen to accelerate corrosion, etc
- Ethanol is detrimental to oil film thickness and the tribochemical boundary layer

Is this really news to any informed BITOGer?
Thanks for saving me time.
 
Last week, seven years after its last cleaning, I removed and cleaned the TBI of my 1994 Opel Kadett (here in Brazil), which had run exclusively on E100 (95% hydrous ethanol + 5% water) its entire life (31 years). I didn't take any photos of the process, but the TBI looks just like the one below.

1755354776798.webp

1755354802139.webp

After cleaning (or even before), the TBI looked like a completely new part, with no signs of corrosion. You can see that the two screws holding the throttle valve are copper, and receive ethanol directly as the injector is located in the compartment above. They are still in perfect condition with no signs of wear.

I also replaced the fuel pump as a precaution (it's a relatively inexpensive part), as it's located outside the tank, but it still worked, having been in use for seven years.

The entire fuel line, tank and ful regulator are also original. I only replaced the injector (also seven years ago), as the original Delphi was experiencing fuel delays during rapid acceleration; this car uses only one injector. I still have the original, which also shows no signs of corrosion. Since it's hard to find a shop these days that can calibrate this injector, I'm keeping it in storage to try to restore it, as it's no longer available new, and the aftermarket are garbage.

Regarding engine wear and the fear of the oil film being removed from the parts, especially the cylinders, I think I'd be having oil consumption problems after 31 years. But that's not the case, as I change the oil every 6 months/3,000 miles and don't even consume 100 ml during that time.

I know that using ethanol has its drawbacks, but I think that applies to any fuel. I wouldn't recommend it for those on short trips or for use in boats that sit idle for long periods, or even in very cold places. But if the material is designed for it, I don't see any problems with continued use.

As @RDY4WAR said, ethanol evaporates easily from the oil, and every change I make every 6 months feels like new oil coming out of the crankcase, just use the car correctly and heat the lubricant.

I only use the car once or twice a week.
 
0:43 in. "This data"....should be "These data".

How would he know that ethanol increased wear in UOAs without a ton of UOAs, probably just noise in the data.

Finally, he mentioned Walmart/Home Depot/Lowes...he's clearly on the take from those retailers.

Based on these issues, I give it a 1 out of 10 stars/thumbs down/should delete/can't believe people watch this :ROFLMAO:.

J/K

I liked it/learned a few things in this one. I used to run up to E30 on a previous turbo/tune to max out my timing advance/zero out knock retard. Current tune/setup doesn't need it and is pushing the fuel system so the volume isn't there anyway, I still splash in ~1.5 gal E85 to a 14.5 gal tank of 93 on track for good measure :sneaky: For small engines I just use the pre-made stuff like he showed or regular E10 87 in my mower, seems to work just fine. I make sure I run it dry before winter and never have any issues.
 
Once again, the video masters the obvious ...

Allow me to summarize what it took him 7 minutes to say:
- Ethanol in fuel attracts/absorbs moisture and combines with oxygen to accelerate corrosion, etc
- Ethanol is detrimental to oil film thickness and the tribochemical boundary layer

Is this really news to any informed BITOGer?
You are aware that the YouTube video in question was not meant solely for the BITOG audience - the potential audience is not as knowledgeable (thus requiring the 7 minutes of necessary background information required for fuller comprehension) - and that LSjr did not ask for this matter to be brought up on this forum, aren't you?
 
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