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Link to an interesting article on new oils.
- Thread starter Bob Woods
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Very interesting article. Amazing that GM would say to fortify your oil with their EOS product, which has a warning on the back label not to do that.
Also interesting about moly adding to the protection zddp provides. Maybe that is why Valvoline added moly to Maxlife when it went to the lowere SM zddp levels. So with the 300 ppm moly Maxlife might be one of the best oils out there for the average car (hot rods and older cars would need even more zddp/moly like in Redline).
Also interesting about moly adding to the protection zddp provides. Maybe that is why Valvoline added moly to Maxlife when it went to the lowere SM zddp levels. So with the 300 ppm moly Maxlife might be one of the best oils out there for the average car (hot rods and older cars would need even more zddp/moly like in Redline).
nice article paul, makes me feel good because i been way ahead of the game for a long time by using redline with torco's mpz assembly lube 12 oz in my oil change..i certainly know that my engines will be protected...my 98 ford vic has 145,000 on it with a steady diet and oil change intervals of 1500-2000 miles since when i had 40,000 miles on it..its smoother then silk and no leaks!!...i have 3000 miles on the oil haven't been able to change it because of the deep snow we have here..
Why don't you just use Synlube? Then you wouldn't have to worry about if the oil is destroying your car. As a side-effect, you can drive several years on the same oil, just because it is designed to deal with contaminants. Besides, it also contains Moly and Graphite, to protect the inside of your engine the best possible way. OK, the oil is expencive, but it depends how you calculate. You don't change it every 3000 mile. In fact, several hundreds and thousends of users have their oil in for more than 10 years. What a relief it would be to not have to visit the Jiffy Lube or your dealer(stealer), to change your oil several times a year. Besides, the environment would be spared from all this unnessessary oil-changing. However, this doesn't mean that you don't have to worry about your oil; you will still have to do regularly oil-filter canges, and check the oil-level.
I have only had their power steering fluid in for some 20000miles. It performs so well, that I have now ordered their service-fill oil(rated for 50000mile OCI) and their Automatic transmission fluid. I expect to have it here in Norway late next week. I did however, read all their info at their homepage. I also Googeled them, and read about the experience from other USERS. I feel that the best thing to do, is to have first hand info from real users, instead of listening to what so-called "experts" with no knowledge to this product, think or mean. I am looking forward to test it. If it performs well, I'll order it for my other car, as well. Here in Norway, one quart of Mobil1 cost some 30-35 USD, so it doesn't cost me anyting. Besides, when I use Synlube, I can be sure that it is 100% synthetic. Mobil1 is probably more a group3 mineral oil. Another thing I considder, is the possibility of Synlube to may reduce the consuption a bit(3-10%). This alone will make up for the cost of the oil, since one US gallon of diesel cost 5.9USD. I have been monitoring the consumption since the car was new in 2003 and 110000 miles ago, so I will see if some changes occure. This is also because my wife is driving it most the time, and doesn't know what I do with the car.
synlube also contains teflon, which is oleophobic, causing accelerated wear due to lack of hydrodynamic lubrication, and clumps when heated to high temps, causing filter blockage.
however i will not comment on the performance of synlube till i see a detailed UOA for 50000 miles with only 1 filter.
also, they dont specify what the basestock is, other than its "synthetic" which could mean anything, good or bad.
however i will not comment on the performance of synlube till i see a detailed UOA for 50000 miles with only 1 filter.
also, they dont specify what the basestock is, other than its "synthetic" which could mean anything, good or bad.
TallPaul wrote: "Amazing that GM would say to fortify your oil with their EOS product"
Read a little closer. The author does not say that GM recommends EOS. There are no quotation marks. The recommendation is the authors words, not GM's.
Read a little closer. The author does not say that GM recommends EOS. There are no quotation marks. The recommendation is the authors words, not GM's.
BillionPa, I really would like to see the test showing that Synlubes type of teflon(ptfe) causes accelerated wear due to lack of hydrodynamic lubrication, and where it clumps when heated.
Don't you think NASA, that is one of their customers, would have seen such a thing?
To me, it seems that you are just throwing out old prejudises, without even taking the time to learn why their product is working, and why NASA is one of their customers. No, I don't think that Synlube have the marketing resources that Castrol and ExconMobil have, but their PRODUCT, doesn't have to be bad for that reason.
In the end, just a simple question for you: Do you think that NASA would use their products if it wasn't the best/one of the best?
Don't you think NASA, that is one of their customers, would have seen such a thing?
To me, it seems that you are just throwing out old prejudises, without even taking the time to learn why their product is working, and why NASA is one of their customers. No, I don't think that Synlube have the marketing resources that Castrol and ExconMobil have, but their PRODUCT, doesn't have to be bad for that reason.
In the end, just a simple question for you: Do you think that NASA would use their products if it wasn't the best/one of the best?
there are reasons dupont specifically says teflon type fluoropolymers are NOT reccomended for internal combusion lubrication. the most critical is the destabilization of the fluorine ions at exhaust gas temperatures, creating extremely toxic and corrosive gases, even more so when combined with the nitrogen oxides from burning the air, and sulfer oxides from burning fuel and oil mixing with water vapour at high temp and turning into Aqua Regia inside the combustion chamber.
from SynLube's own website: "The PTFE chemically decomposes also at this temperature, into components that do not cause any deposits."
no they dont cause any deposits. any deposits, or anything else, that gets in the way of decomposed PTFE is pretty much destroyed. acid attacks metal. nuff said.
in order to purchase Teflon products, you have to sign a license agreement that says you wont use it in ways such as this. that is why you dont see Teflon as a brand name on ANY aftermarket additive containing PTFE or ETFE.
Teflon type fluoropolymers are designed to be baked onto a surface or used in lubricating oils that dont get burned or are exposed to exhaust gas blowby, because it bakes the fluropolymer chains together in the oil.
Teflon fluoropolymers are also adamantly hydrophobic and oleophobic, and if they get dispersed onto metal areas in the engine, they will prevent oil lubrication as the layer is worn down, and that will cause excess wear in that area. this really isnt a problem with Synlube because of the molybdenum disulfide in the oil though.
as for NASA being a synlube customer, i know they use their hydraulic fluids because they have better fluidity than Pentosin and Shell aircraft grade fluids at low temp.
if Synlube didnt contain PTFE or graphite, i would probably be using it now, if even just to test it, but there is no way in #@$%! any fluoropolymer will go in any car i own or maintain.
from SynLube's own website: "The PTFE chemically decomposes also at this temperature, into components that do not cause any deposits."
no they dont cause any deposits. any deposits, or anything else, that gets in the way of decomposed PTFE is pretty much destroyed. acid attacks metal. nuff said.
in order to purchase Teflon products, you have to sign a license agreement that says you wont use it in ways such as this. that is why you dont see Teflon as a brand name on ANY aftermarket additive containing PTFE or ETFE.
Teflon type fluoropolymers are designed to be baked onto a surface or used in lubricating oils that dont get burned or are exposed to exhaust gas blowby, because it bakes the fluropolymer chains together in the oil.
Teflon fluoropolymers are also adamantly hydrophobic and oleophobic, and if they get dispersed onto metal areas in the engine, they will prevent oil lubrication as the layer is worn down, and that will cause excess wear in that area. this really isnt a problem with Synlube because of the molybdenum disulfide in the oil though.
as for NASA being a synlube customer, i know they use their hydraulic fluids because they have better fluidity than Pentosin and Shell aircraft grade fluids at low temp.
if Synlube didnt contain PTFE or graphite, i would probably be using it now, if even just to test it, but there is no way in #@$%! any fluoropolymer will go in any car i own or maintain.
One of the biggest shipping companies, Frontline, is using PTFE in their engines and hydraulic systems. Several hundreds of shipping companies have started to use it. It is not because they find it funny just to do so, it is because they save money as well as reduced emissions. The type of PTFE they are using, is from a company called QMI. Even though their formula of PTFE isn't as advanced as Synlubes, DNV(Det Norske Veritas) have been testing this product, finding it to do no harm. Also Statoil, one of the worlds biggest oilcompanies, are using QMI. They all have been doing extensive testing of this PTFE product. What makes you think that all the PTFE in this oil will end up in the combustion chamber? In a normal healthy engine, the average oil-consumption of Synlube, is one quart for every 20000 miles. I would classify your writing to be rather hysterical in regards to creating "extremely toxic and corrosive gases". If this was true, none of the above mentioned, would have used it. Mazda in Japan have been selling QMI PTFE engine threatment as OEM for several years. Wonder why? The part number is: 9999 77 6052 E3 . This was a lot about QMI, but I found it to be related, since it is the PTFE you have some perseptions about.
In the rare situation when metal surface is damaged under extreme operation condition and all of the positively charged surface oxide is removed, the fresh metal surface have a negative charge. Before oxidation of this surface can re-occur this would result in increased local wear. To eliminate wear under these rear conditions, the high Graphite colloid loading of the Synlube formula, instantaneously protects such surface. This is because the graphite colloids have positive surface charge and are easily attracted to the metal surface, which if it is oxide free, has a negative charge. I am not trying to convinse you to start using Synlube, but I find that they have so many positive side-effects, that it would be unwise to not test it out. Besides, I think the environmental effects of not using so much oil, should be considdered. Another thing is that I like to test out things myself to see if they work as advertised.However, you can easily find hundreds of reasons to not use it, but that is your point of wiev(together with most). That doesn't mean you are doing the right thing. A good example is the video systems Beta versus VHS. VHS won, but Beta was the best system. Most people are tricked by clever marketing, because in the end, big cash is king. And the big cash have enough resources to use in marketing. If the oil companies want you to believe that they are here to service you, they have the money needed, to do so. A little help from DuPont will be a good thing for them(but maybe not for you).
In the rare situation when metal surface is damaged under extreme operation condition and all of the positively charged surface oxide is removed, the fresh metal surface have a negative charge. Before oxidation of this surface can re-occur this would result in increased local wear. To eliminate wear under these rear conditions, the high Graphite colloid loading of the Synlube formula, instantaneously protects such surface. This is because the graphite colloids have positive surface charge and are easily attracted to the metal surface, which if it is oxide free, has a negative charge. I am not trying to convinse you to start using Synlube, but I find that they have so many positive side-effects, that it would be unwise to not test it out. Besides, I think the environmental effects of not using so much oil, should be considdered. Another thing is that I like to test out things myself to see if they work as advertised.However, you can easily find hundreds of reasons to not use it, but that is your point of wiev(together with most). That doesn't mean you are doing the right thing. A good example is the video systems Beta versus VHS. VHS won, but Beta was the best system. Most people are tricked by clever marketing, because in the end, big cash is king. And the big cash have enough resources to use in marketing. If the oil companies want you to believe that they are here to service you, they have the money needed, to do so. A little help from DuPont will be a good thing for them(but maybe not for you).
Another interesting thing about Teflon, that I found here on BITOG, is that DuPong have started to sell Teflon threatment for engines!!!
Do a search for "Dupont Wearshield Engine treatment", and see what you find. I think DuPont should have enough resources to find out whether it can damage an engine, or not.
I am especially pleased about this, since DuPont is one of the companies that have always said Teflon couln't be used in an engine.
Now they have turned around, since they have found what others have known for years.
Do a search for "Dupont Wearshield Engine treatment", and see what you find. I think DuPont should have enough resources to find out whether it can damage an engine, or not.
I am especially pleased about this, since DuPont is one of the companies that have always said Teflon couln't be used in an engine.
Now they have turned around, since they have found what others have known for years.
Do they call it PTFE? According to the article, they dance around the subject, as they have free-trade restrictions on what they can and cannot say.
Johnny, on the 50K OCI with the SynLube, are you going to run a bypass filter?
Johnny, on the 50K OCI with the SynLube, are you going to run a bypass filter?
Hello, toocrazy2you. Right now I am using OEM Nissan oilfilter. I am going to use it some 15000 miles. At that time I am going to buy Synlubes microglassfilter. I have decided to go longer than 50000 miles on this oil. This oil is now capable of going 150000 miles. I am going to follow their recommandations and use their filter. I also have some Neodymium magnets that I am going to place on the filter. I have now driven some 200 miles on the Synlube, and it really performs well. I had expected it to be good, but not that I should notice any difference so early. I have just filled up my tank, so I am looking forward to see if there is any difference in MPG over the next 8-10 tankfulls.
WARNING: THE ABOVE ARTICLE PERTAINS TO "FLAT-TAPPET" ENGINES
Very few auto engines are flat-tappet (solid lifter). The person was writing about old MG engines but it pertains to most race engines, most if not all motorcyles, Porsche, and a few other.
Most of the issue on reduced ZDDP applies to "proper break-in" on flat tappet engines and aggressive cams/springs. See my post about comments from Bob Olree on the issue in Engine Oils.
Very few auto engines are flat-tappet (solid lifter). The person was writing about old MG engines but it pertains to most race engines, most if not all motorcyles, Porsche, and a few other.
Most of the issue on reduced ZDDP applies to "proper break-in" on flat tappet engines and aggressive cams/springs. See my post about comments from Bob Olree on the issue in Engine Oils.
Quote:
... flat-tappet (solid lifter)... .
Is that what it means ? Since I've been seeing the term, and the concern about increased wear, I've taken it to mean lifters that are not rollers -- whether solid lifters or hydraulic.
For those who cares, the Synlube have made the engine more quiet at all speeds, and I have had it in for 2300 miles. It pulls a lot better when climbing hills and I don't have to downshift as often as before. It also looks like I am going further on a tankfull, and for the first time with this car, I have gone more than 1000 kilometers(622miles)on one tank. The car have been driven 245000 miles. The first thing I did when I bought the car with 222000 miles on the odometer, was to do two full threatments with Auto-Rx(2000miles cleaning and 3000miles rinse. Then, I used Royal Purple with 4oz Auto-rx(some 9000 miles). I then put in pure dino for 1500 miles to be sure that the metal was clean. During the first clean and rince, I noticed the engine were becoming smoother and maybe a tad better pulling ability. I did not notice any improvement in mileage. With Synlube I have noticed this: the engine have become a lot quieter, the engine is pulling a lot stronger, it seems to have improved mpg. Maybe 5-8%. I did not expect this to happen.
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