AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Always admired these when they were in production, any thoughts on how a well kept example would be for a 2nd car? Shared platform with the Jag S-type and they can be had with a manual.
Lincoln LS ?
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Too new, I would wait 5 years and see their committment
The last LS was made in 06 and the last S-Type in 08. Both of these cars are very finicky and have many many issues at this age. 9+ years for the Jag and at least 11 years for the Linc. Chrisfix has a S-Type and has done a lot of work to keep it in shape for his dad. I would recommend to stay away because after all that time they both will have electric gremlins no matter the mileage or maintenance. Any good example with little to no problems would probably cost over book value and be sold by a private seller. Lexus/Acura/Infinitis of the same vintage with a moderate maintenance history would serve you well.
I can't imagine a V6 manual one could have too many 4 digit drivetrain repairs? But I guess this is the only N-S application for a V6 duratec, so maybe there are lots of rare parts under the hood. Maybe they used lots of accessories off the Mustang?
I do some part price look ups on any car I'm considering, and some part cross referencing on cars that were a bit rare.
I do some part price look ups on any car I'm considering, and some part cross referencing on cars that were a bit rare.
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I love the love the looks of them. They're beautiful cars. Lincolns are some of my favorite cars.
I always thought it was a little deceptive to put the
same Ford V6 that Tauruses, Escapes, and Freestyles got in the "premium" brand Lincoln LS and Jag S-Type.
Wikipedia sums it up: "Ford's standard DOHC V6 is known as the Duratec 30. It was introduced in 1996 as a replacement for the 3.8 L Essex engine in the Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable. It has 3.0 L (2967 cc) of displacement and produces between 200 hp (149 kW) and 240 hp (179 kW). The same engine is used by the Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mazda MPV, Mazda6, Mondeo ST220 and many other Ford vehicles. It is essentially a bored-out (to 88.9 mm) Duratec 25 and is built in Ford's Cleveland Engine #2 plant. "
Understood this happens in the real world, but please, someone driving a Jag or Lincoln shouldn't see an old beat-up Taurus and know they've got about the same engine in there. They did put a more premium DAMB valve actuation in the Jags at least.) I like knowing my BMW doesn't share anything with heathen brands...
Wikipedia sums it up: "Ford's standard DOHC V6 is known as the Duratec 30. It was introduced in 1996 as a replacement for the 3.8 L Essex engine in the Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable. It has 3.0 L (2967 cc) of displacement and produces between 200 hp (149 kW) and 240 hp (179 kW). The same engine is used by the Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mazda MPV, Mazda6, Mondeo ST220 and many other Ford vehicles. It is essentially a bored-out (to 88.9 mm) Duratec 25 and is built in Ford's Cleveland Engine #2 plant. "
Understood this happens in the real world, but please, someone driving a Jag or Lincoln shouldn't see an old beat-up Taurus and know they've got about the same engine in there. They did put a more premium DAMB valve actuation in the Jags at least.) I like knowing my BMW doesn't share anything with heathen brands...
Funny how these seem to get [censored] on, especially by people who have never owned one.
I bought mine in 2008 with 56,000 miles on it and it has been my primary daily driver since then. The car is now just short of 153,000 miles. Nearly all of those miles are mine-I doubt it's had more than 300 miles with someone else behind the wheel.
I'd hop in it today and drive it to California if I needed a reason to do so.
I have the 3.9L V8, which is the Jaguar-shared engine. I've been running Mobil 1 5W-20 in combination with a Motorcraft filter for 10K miles since about 70K. Before that, I did Motorcraft 5W-20 for 5K.
I have done very little outside normal maintenance. You can expect to start losing ignition coils at around 110-120K miles and they are a bear to change, but should be good for a while after they have been done. Replace all 8 while you're in there as getting access to them is the most difficult part. Some cars had problems early in life, and Ford actually extended the ignition coil warranty to 100,000 mile. It's worth checking if this was done, since the warranty repair was to replace all 8 coils-not just the bad ones. BTW, a failing ignition coil will often throw a throttle body code rather than a misfire code. The #1 and #5 coils seem to be the first to go bad, and the stray RF from them can make the car think the electronic throttle body is malfunctioning. This is a common mis-diagnoses and I've know folks who spent big bucks on a replacement throttle body that wasn't actually needed-the throttle body in normal use is a lifetime part.
I lost a window regulator a couple of years ago, and finally had my mechanic change it because it was so difficult. I had to put new tie rods and tie rod ends on it this past spring because I think the salt had finally gotten to them-they weren't unsafe, but the shop couldn't get them loose to align them after a tire change. I had a radiator hose blow on the interstate that left me having to have it towed.
The recommended transmission service interval is something obscenely high-I think 100 or 150K. There is a Ford engineer on the Lincoln LS owners' club website who is pretty adamant about a 30K interval on this. The transmission doesn't have a dip stick plus a drain and refill only gets a small part of the fluid. I have the local F/L dealer do it(one of the few pieces of maintenance I don't do myself)-it's around $250 for a flush.
My A/C went out a couple of years ago. That was not cheap to fix, but it should be good for a while. The compressor was bad, and both my regular mechanic and a few other places I called said that they could only warranty it with a full system replacement. I know my mechanic well enough that he brought me in to look after he'd pulled the compressor and it had pretty well ground itself into oblivion and left crud in the lines.
The car absolutely drives like a dream provided that the suspension has been maintained. When I did the tie rods, I took the chance to renew the A-arms and ball joints all around, which made a noticeable difference in the handling. The car was designed to compete with the BMW 5-series, and IMO they did a pretty darn good job at least in the handling department. A stock car is dead-on 50:50. It has fully independent double wishbone rear suspension, and of course the same in the front. Just watch the garages and make sure they don't try to jack it by the differential!
BTW, the AJ-V8 made Ward's top ten list in I think 2000 or 2001. The revision introduced to the '03 LS added variable valve timing.
The LS is totally unlike anything the F/L/M group had made before or has made since. It's was a clean slate design and the only mass parts sharing was with the early 2000s Ford Thunderbird. Although the basic AJ-V8 design was shared by Jaguar, it only made it into the LS and T-Bird on the Ford side of things. The 3.9L version is unique to F/L.
My overall cost of ownership has been very low-it's not the money pit that someone above suggested. My only major 2016 expense was a new set of tires-$800 for the tires and around $200 for all the suspension parts I replaced. Aside from oil changes, a coolant flush, and brake pads the only repair work I did in 2015 was a serpentine belt that cost me about $40 at NAPA. All told, I think my maintenance was $200 for the year. If I said down and figured it up, I'd guess I've spent about $800 a year on average maintaining the car, and that's including wear and tear items like tires and brakes. I'd call that a pretty darn inexpensive car to own.
I bought mine in 2008 with 56,000 miles on it and it has been my primary daily driver since then. The car is now just short of 153,000 miles. Nearly all of those miles are mine-I doubt it's had more than 300 miles with someone else behind the wheel.
I'd hop in it today and drive it to California if I needed a reason to do so.
I have the 3.9L V8, which is the Jaguar-shared engine. I've been running Mobil 1 5W-20 in combination with a Motorcraft filter for 10K miles since about 70K. Before that, I did Motorcraft 5W-20 for 5K.
I have done very little outside normal maintenance. You can expect to start losing ignition coils at around 110-120K miles and they are a bear to change, but should be good for a while after they have been done. Replace all 8 while you're in there as getting access to them is the most difficult part. Some cars had problems early in life, and Ford actually extended the ignition coil warranty to 100,000 mile. It's worth checking if this was done, since the warranty repair was to replace all 8 coils-not just the bad ones. BTW, a failing ignition coil will often throw a throttle body code rather than a misfire code. The #1 and #5 coils seem to be the first to go bad, and the stray RF from them can make the car think the electronic throttle body is malfunctioning. This is a common mis-diagnoses and I've know folks who spent big bucks on a replacement throttle body that wasn't actually needed-the throttle body in normal use is a lifetime part.
I lost a window regulator a couple of years ago, and finally had my mechanic change it because it was so difficult. I had to put new tie rods and tie rod ends on it this past spring because I think the salt had finally gotten to them-they weren't unsafe, but the shop couldn't get them loose to align them after a tire change. I had a radiator hose blow on the interstate that left me having to have it towed.
The recommended transmission service interval is something obscenely high-I think 100 or 150K. There is a Ford engineer on the Lincoln LS owners' club website who is pretty adamant about a 30K interval on this. The transmission doesn't have a dip stick plus a drain and refill only gets a small part of the fluid. I have the local F/L dealer do it(one of the few pieces of maintenance I don't do myself)-it's around $250 for a flush.
My A/C went out a couple of years ago. That was not cheap to fix, but it should be good for a while. The compressor was bad, and both my regular mechanic and a few other places I called said that they could only warranty it with a full system replacement. I know my mechanic well enough that he brought me in to look after he'd pulled the compressor and it had pretty well ground itself into oblivion and left crud in the lines.
The car absolutely drives like a dream provided that the suspension has been maintained. When I did the tie rods, I took the chance to renew the A-arms and ball joints all around, which made a noticeable difference in the handling. The car was designed to compete with the BMW 5-series, and IMO they did a pretty darn good job at least in the handling department. A stock car is dead-on 50:50. It has fully independent double wishbone rear suspension, and of course the same in the front. Just watch the garages and make sure they don't try to jack it by the differential!
BTW, the AJ-V8 made Ward's top ten list in I think 2000 or 2001. The revision introduced to the '03 LS added variable valve timing.
The LS is totally unlike anything the F/L/M group had made before or has made since. It's was a clean slate design and the only mass parts sharing was with the early 2000s Ford Thunderbird. Although the basic AJ-V8 design was shared by Jaguar, it only made it into the LS and T-Bird on the Ford side of things. The 3.9L version is unique to F/L.
My overall cost of ownership has been very low-it's not the money pit that someone above suggested. My only major 2016 expense was a new set of tires-$800 for the tires and around $200 for all the suspension parts I replaced. Aside from oil changes, a coolant flush, and brake pads the only repair work I did in 2015 was a serpentine belt that cost me about $40 at NAPA. All told, I think my maintenance was $200 for the year. If I said down and figured it up, I'd guess I've spent about $800 a year on average maintaining the car, and that's including wear and tear items like tires and brakes. I'd call that a pretty darn inexpensive car to own.
I have never and will never recommend one to anyone. I will say that I have made a substantial amount of money selling parts to fix them.
Back when I used to own Cadillac Sevilles, the Lincoln LS was their contemporary competition. Caddy guys loved to bag on the Lincoln, citing reliability or whatever. I'm sure Lincoln folks did the same of the Northstar. In the end, I think a lot of ignorance on both sides made for a lot of purposeless bloviating.
I think the Lincoln LS falls into the same category as the Cadillac Northstars. I think both are relatively misunderstood and/or not appreciated given their context. The LS being a Jag in disguise and the Northstar as a truly modern and powerful engine hamstrung (and not utilitized) by their blue-haired drivers.
I think an enthusiast of either one can make a smart used purchase. One might have to be more careful than when buying a Malibu or Fusion -- as there are simply more things to check out and look after on these. I would recommend, if you're seriously thinking about finding a good one, to join an LS forum and learn what the trouble spots are and how to identify a good or a bad one in the field. As with Cadillacs, I'm sure there are some FANTASTIC buys to be had out there in a used LS, along with quite a few basket cases as well.
I think the Lincoln LS falls into the same category as the Cadillac Northstars. I think both are relatively misunderstood and/or not appreciated given their context. The LS being a Jag in disguise and the Northstar as a truly modern and powerful engine hamstrung (and not utilitized) by their blue-haired drivers.
I think an enthusiast of either one can make a smart used purchase. One might have to be more careful than when buying a Malibu or Fusion -- as there are simply more things to check out and look after on these. I would recommend, if you're seriously thinking about finding a good one, to join an LS forum and learn what the trouble spots are and how to identify a good or a bad one in the field. As with Cadillacs, I'm sure there are some FANTASTIC buys to be had out there in a used LS, along with quite a few basket cases as well.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
I have never and will never recommend one to anyone. I will say that I have made a substantial amount of money selling parts to fix them.
And yet you've not owned one...
I stand by what I said. The folks who like to trash them are mostly folks who have never owned one.
Yes, they require maintenance-so does any car. Some folks neglect maintenance, and I don't think the LS responds as well to neglect as a lot of other cars can.
As an enthusiast of the model, I will again state that I have now 8 years and have sat behind the wheel for close to 100,000 miles. If mine were totalled, I'd most likely find the best, lowest mileage 2006 that I could get my hands on to replace it-that's how much I like the car.
By the way, folks who currently own one or are considering buying one NEED to be a member of the Lincoln LS Owners Club. It's a private message board with a small annual membership fee(I think $10 or so). Paying that gives you access to hundreds of service bulletins and the like along with the opportunity to interact with a few of the engineers who designed these cars and other enthusiasts who know them inside and out. I can post a question on there and get a direct, to the point response within a few hours and not have to wade through drivel from folks who have never even set foot in one of these cars.
I have never and will never recommend one to anyone. I will say that I have made a substantial amount of money selling parts to fix them.
And yet you've not owned one...
I stand by what I said. The folks who like to trash them are mostly folks who have never owned one.
Yes, they require maintenance-so does any car. Some folks neglect maintenance, and I don't think the LS responds as well to neglect as a lot of other cars can.
As an enthusiast of the model, I will again state that I have now 8 years and have sat behind the wheel for close to 100,000 miles. If mine were totalled, I'd most likely find the best, lowest mileage 2006 that I could get my hands on to replace it-that's how much I like the car.
By the way, folks who currently own one or are considering buying one NEED to be a member of the Lincoln LS Owners Club. It's a private message board with a small annual membership fee(I think $10 or so). Paying that gives you access to hundreds of service bulletins and the like along with the opportunity to interact with a few of the engineers who designed these cars and other enthusiasts who know them inside and out. I can post a question on there and get a direct, to the point response within a few hours and not have to wade through drivel from folks who have never even set foot in one of these cars.
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It's too bad that the LS has had problems because it's the best looking sedan I've ever seen. A local Jag mechanic services several of these cars and there's something about the difference between the cam chain tensioner on the Jag vs the LS that has to be updated on the LS. I helped him deliver an LS back to his customer and I liked the way it drove.
Was the LS a limited production car? I don't see them very often.
Was the LS a limited production car? I don't see them very often.
I've always liked the ones in black.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
It's too bad that the LS has had problems because it's the best looking sedan I've ever seen. A local Jag mechanic services several of these cars and there's something about the difference between the cam chain tensioner on the Jag vs the LS that has to be updated on the LS. I helped him deliver an LS back to his customer and I liked the way it drove.
Was the LS a limited production car? I don't see them very often.
When they weren't broken they drove great. There is a reason you can pick them up locally for $2-3,000. Things like a lower ball joint only being serviced with a suspension upright is just crazy.
It's too bad that the LS has had problems because it's the best looking sedan I've ever seen. A local Jag mechanic services several of these cars and there's something about the difference between the cam chain tensioner on the Jag vs the LS that has to be updated on the LS. I helped him deliver an LS back to his customer and I liked the way it drove.
Was the LS a limited production car? I don't see them very often.
When they weren't broken they drove great. There is a reason you can pick them up locally for $2-3,000. Things like a lower ball joint only being serviced with a suspension upright is just crazy.
I bought a V8 LS new in 2006
I kept it for four years and very early on I had a seat heater blower motor fail and
After that no issues with anything else. It was black with the factory black out treatment.
A girl on a cell phone pulled out in front of me in 2010. I was going 55 mph and avoided killing her by taking the car off road. I had two elderly women with me coming back from Easter services. The car was totalled but none of us was hurt. All I could see were car parts in slow motion flying through the air. The aluminum body simply peeled away but absorbed all the shock.
The only thing I did not like was the suspension was too taunt.
I always thought that V8 would have been great in a Mustang.
I kept it for four years and very early on I had a seat heater blower motor fail and
After that no issues with anything else. It was black with the factory black out treatment.
A girl on a cell phone pulled out in front of me in 2010. I was going 55 mph and avoided killing her by taking the car off road. I had two elderly women with me coming back from Easter services. The car was totalled but none of us was hurt. All I could see were car parts in slow motion flying through the air. The aluminum body simply peeled away but absorbed all the shock.
The only thing I did not like was the suspension was too taunt.
I always thought that V8 would have been great in a Mustang.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
It's too bad that the LS has had problems because it's the best looking sedan I've ever seen. A local Jag mechanic services several of these cars and there's something about the difference between the cam chain tensioner on the Jag vs the LS that has to be updated on the LS. I helped him deliver an LS back to his customer and I liked the way it drove.
Was the LS a limited production car? I don't see them very often.
When they weren't broken they drove great. There is a reason you can pick them up locally for $2-3,000. Things like a lower ball joint only being serviced with a suspension upright is just crazy.
Funny thing, the actual owners of the cars don't seem to report the rampant break-downs that you allege happen.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
It's too bad that the LS has had problems because it's the best looking sedan I've ever seen. A local Jag mechanic services several of these cars and there's something about the difference between the cam chain tensioner on the Jag vs the LS that has to be updated on the LS. I helped him deliver an LS back to his customer and I liked the way it drove.
Was the LS a limited production car? I don't see them very often.
When they weren't broken they drove great. There is a reason you can pick them up locally for $2-3,000. Things like a lower ball joint only being serviced with a suspension upright is just crazy.
Funny thing, the actual owners of the cars don't seem to report the rampant break-downs that you allege happen.
Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
Funny thing, the actual owners of the cars don't seem to report the rampant break-downs that you allege happen.
He works at a dealership in the parts dept so he should know. Get off your high horse.
Funny thing, the actual owners of the cars don't seem to report the rampant break-downs that you allege happen.
He works at a dealership in the parts dept so he should know. Get off your high horse.
I have a 2000 3.9/auto sitting in front of my shop with blown head gaskets. My in-laws bought it at an equipment auction as my wife's first car but it was getting hot, and wound up blowing out the composite coolant pipe up front between the heads. My FIL is smart enough not to continue driving it when it's overheating, but what little time it spent hot did it in. The root problem was the wacky hydraulic cooling fan (yes, a second PS pump drives a fan on a hydraulic motor with a bypass valve to kick it on and off like an electric fan) - that bypass valve had gone out, keeping the fan from running. I got ahold of it, replaced the coolant pipe, and drove it about 5 miles diagnosing the other cooling system problems - I will say it felt like a real fun, sporty car with generous power and good handling, and good looks to boot, but the difficulty of working on that engine and that they can't be remanufactured forces me to say, in my honest opinion, I'd recommend against it if you're looking for an economical, somewhat low maintenance second car - just too many downfalls to owning one that's aging. I started tearing down the engine but had to put it aside after several days of work, and haven't gotten back to it because it's such an intensive job to get that darned engine apart. Not to mention it has 201K on it so it's not a sure thing the engine is even worth the head gasket replacement.
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