Lexus recall for steering syetem

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
those who don't understand what a brake pedal does, or what the "N" position on their shift console means.


That's like, what, 75% of their customer base?

No, sadly, that would be like 75% of the DRIVER BASE in the U.S. I've driven in Europe, Japan, and the Philippines. As proud and happy as I am to be an American, I have to say that as a whole, we must be amongst the WORST and most INCOMPETENT drivers on the planet. If I even remotely suspected that my car was a runaway, it'd be in neutral, and I'd be on the brake full-force, IMMEDIATELY. What's so hard about that????

Newsflash: This is NOT a Toyota issue -- it's an IDIOT issue. Bottom line: I don't care what brand of car anyone chooses to drive -- if you can't handle your vehicle, you don't have any business at all being on the roads -- period.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
....... And, I might add, I'd rather have a company that seems ultra-sensitive in favor of making a recall if there's any doubt about a system, than one that not inclined to recall when they should.

..... Kudos to Toyota/Lexus for doing the right thing.



If only that were really how Toyota operates. I agree they appear to be making improvments on this front. But historicaly they have not been quick or "ultra sensitive" at all.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100521/BU...bout-its-probes



Well, they certainly are now. And I've got a bunch of nit-noid little recall notices from Toyota that nobody cared about before the acceleration thing, so yes, they did, but nobody cared before...

You get right back to me after GM recalls all the 60-deg V-6 engines that were trashed by coolant bleeding into their crankcases through the gaskets that were known to be defective for YEARS -- but were installed anyway . . .

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
As I've said before, either Toyota is building defective vehicles or selling them to defective customers.

Take your pick.

(Or, put another way, the defect with Toyota vehicles is a dealer-installed option).



Oh let's be real. I've seen Saabs driven by complete morons too. This is in no way a "brand specific" problem. Hey, if all those Saab owners are so swift, why are so many of them totally incapable of discerning how to avoid sludging up their engines? You have an intensely over-driven/over-loaded turbo-4, and so many think that they can feed it cheap dino and drive for 10k miles with no problem. Ooooops, doesn't work that way. So, what say the arrogant Saab-worshipers now? Toyota screwed up a couple engines a decade or so ago, and they still get pilloried over that. Yet Saab has built a couple of engines even more prone to sludge up, and somehow, that's not a big deal -- what gives????

 

[LS2JSTS]

I said, it appears they are getting better.

But that doesn't negate the record of years past. Just as you deem it relevant to bring GM's past into the discussion. I feel Toyota's past is just as relevant.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk


Newsflash: This is NOT a Toyota issue -- it's an IDIOT issue.



So based on the numbers of reported cases, and your information. One could then assume that more "idiots" buy Toyota than any other brand.

I tend to agree.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: ekpolk


Newsflash: This is NOT a Toyota issue -- it's an IDIOT issue.



So based on the numbers of reported cases, and your information. One could then assume that more "idiots" buy Toyota than any other brand.

I tend to agree.


Well, I'll admit that I provoked that comment, but no, that's not right. How many sets of bad tires did Ford install on Exploders? For how many years did GM keep building 60-deg V-6s, knowing that they were putting on bad intake gaskets? And yet, despite the wide-spread knowledge of this defect, the faithful keep buying.

No, with all due respect, your "conclusion" is not sound. My point was, and is, ultimately, that there are issues with cars, and there are issues with drivers. The two are not the same. But you know that, I'm sure...

 

[Win]

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: ekpolk


Newsflash: This is NOT a Toyota issue -- it's an IDIOT issue.



So based on the numbers of reported cases, and your information. One could then assume that more "idiots" buy Toyota than any other brand.

I tend to agree.


Well, I'll admit that I provoked that comment, but no, that's not right. How many sets of bad tires did Ford install on Exploders? For how many years did GM keep building 60-deg V-6s, knowing that they were putting on bad intake gaskets? And yet, despite the wide-spread knowledge of this defect, the faithful keep buying.

No, with all due respect, your "conclusion" is not sound. My point was, and is, ultimately, that there are issues with cars, and there are issues with drivers. The two are not the same. But you know that, I'm sure...

I do know that. And I also know that not all of the UA cases are due to carbon based errors. Some of them, no doubt, but to dismiss the problem as entirely due to "idiots" is just fallacy.

My "conclusion" is not sound because the assumption it's based on, yours, is not sound. GIGO.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk


How many sets of bad tires did Ford install on Exploders?



I honestly don't know. How many sets of bad tires did Firestone sell to Ford?

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk

Newsflash: This is NOT a Toyota issue -- it's an IDIOT issue.


An IDIOT issue that appears to affect Toyotas much more than vehicles from other makes.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
...
I do know that. And I also know that not all of the UA cases are due to carbon based errors. Some of them, no doubt, but to dismiss the problem as entirely due to "idiots" is just fallacy.



Is it really? Whether you're driving a Chevy or an import, if the engine runs away on you, how hard is it to pop the trans into "N" and stomp on the brake? I really don't think that one's ability to panic and do the wrong thing, or to overlook doing the right thing, is dependent upon whether one is driving an import or a domestic.

I'm not trying to be dismissive of any problems in any cars. No matter where they're built, they should all behave as intended. But even if a car doesn't behave as designed/intended, that does not relieve the operator of the responsibility of operating the machine correctly.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: ekpolk

Newsflash: This is NOT a Toyota issue -- it's an IDIOT issue.


An IDIOT issue that appears to affect Toyotas much more than vehicles from other makes.


Key term there would be "appears to" as opposed to "does". . .

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
I've seen Saabs driven by complete morons too. This is in no way a "brand specific" problem.


Where are the other recalls for unintended acceleration for other manufacturers?

Why aren't Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, et al. having these issues?


Quote:
Hey, if all those Saab owners are so swift, why are so many of them totally incapable of discerning how to avoid sludging up their engines? You have an intensely over-driven/over-loaded turbo-4, and so many think that they can feed it cheap dino and drive for 10k miles with no problem. Ooooops, doesn't work that way. So, what say the arrogant Saab-worshipers now? Toyota screwed up a couple engines a decade or so ago, and they still get pilloried over that. Yet Saab has built a couple of engines even more prone to sludge up, and somehow, that's not a big deal -- what gives????


Is this an owner issue or a Saab issue? First you start out suggesting that it's an owner issue, then, midstream, you start saying that it's a Saab issue.

For the record, it's my understanding that the Saab sludge issue has a remedy which involves a redesigned PCV system.

What, exactly, is the remedy for the sludging Toyota engines?

As far as unintended acceleration, point me to the reported cases of Saab unintended acceleration that lead to a recall at your earliest convenience.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk

Key term there would be "appears to" as opposed to "does". . .


Appears to, based on news reports and recalls. Perception is reality..you know that.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
How many sets of bad tires did Ford install on Exploders?


I've got a better one. How many Exploder owners never bothered to check their tire pressure?

 

[ekpolk]

Now, let's "steer" this back toward the original topic. Toyota/Lexus did the right thing, and called back in certain vehicles to ensure the safety of their steering systems. We have an outstanding recall on the 04 Prius's steering that has been out there since before the whole UA "thing", but nobody notices that (except for my wife who has been busting my chops for not making sure we get it done...). Recalls are NOTHING NEW for ANY car maker. They've all been doing them for years. Foreign and domestic. One can try to make hay one way or the other, but at the end of the day, this just isn't a big deal.

Buy (and if you wish, worship) the make you want. Be driven by whatever factors matter to you (where it's made, quality, features, whatever).

The bottom line is that this one, unremarkable recall is simply not an indicator of anything important about any car maker, one way or the other. . .

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Now, let's "steer" this back toward the original topic.


Getting the worms back into the can may not be an easy thing to do.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
How many sets of bad tires did Ford install on Exploders?


I've got a better one. How many Exploder owners never bothered to check their tire pressure?



Thank you -- exactly. And how would we describe SUV owners who never check their tire pressure? ? ? Being charitable, "ding-bated-ness" is not something over which Toyota/Lexus owners have a monopoly. Sadly, it seems to me to be an American driver thing. Matters not what one chooses to drive.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Now, let's "steer" this back toward the original topic.


Getting the worms back into the can may not be an easy thing to do.

Pandora is laughing at all of us now, is she not????

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Recalls are NOTHING NEW for ANY car maker. They've all been doing them for years. Foreign and domestic. One can try to make hay.....

The bottom line is that this one, unremarkable recall is simply not an indicator of anything important about any car maker, one way or the other. . .


Do you really think that I and others dont realize that recalls are a part of the business? The only one making hay here is you, bringing the "exploder" and "IM" gaskets into the discussion. For the sake of what, pointing out the painfully obvious? Thanks for the keen insite.

Where did I say that this recall is some sort of indicator? Seems to me you are the one saying this recall is some indicator of Toyotas new found diligence in regard to recalls. I'm merely pointing out that if they are now truely diligent about such things, it will be a change for the better. As their history(Like other companies you point out) doesn't show that same concern for the consumer.