Let's talk about extended intervals

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I use Techron in all my gasoline vehicles (7 assorted brands)every 3000 miles, change oil every 4000. Does a wonderful job of eliminating carbon and letting me use regular gas, but have never seen, nor has my in-house mechanic ever commented on a variance in oil color. I'd love to know if anyone has found a better air filter. I'm not the least bit happy with the Toyota EOM air filters, and don't have room in all engine compartments to install a double filter system. Dirt contamination is my determining factor for oil changes.
 
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I have also lived on a dirt road, while running extended intervals. I was running a K&N air filter and never had a silicon reading get high enough to get a alert about it in analysis. I was using the $10 Mobil 1 analysis, which did not give specific values, just OK, an alert indicating check again in 3k, or a change oil recommendation. I had one alert which was water(but not coolant) in the oil, and a change oil when I ran to 12000 miles indicating that the 5W30 had thickened to 40W and recommending a 10K interval. All other specs, including silicon were still listed as OK. When I had the oil checked at the next two 11k intervals, all specs were listed as OK. One thing about K&N filters, they supossedly filter better as they load up with dirt, so they should not be cleaned every 3k like some AR types do.
 

Patman

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quote:
Originally posted by widman: I use Techron in all my gasoline vehicles (7 assorted brands)every 3000 miles, change oil every 4000.
I've heard that using injector cleaners too often can do more harm than good though. I realize that Chevron gas contains techron, but I'm sure it's in smaller doses than the single bottles of the stuff they sell. I tend to stay away from fuel injector cleaners on my cars, I put them in once a year at the most.
 
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Air FIlters I have tried the foam oiled filters and some aftermarket Purolators etc. My oil analysis (believe it or not) says the OEM are the best for keeping dirt out. Better constructed then aftermarket and filter better IMHO. Plus, the foam ones tend to fall apart after a few years and the cleaning and oiling is truly a pain.
 

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VaderSS The problem with any filter (Oil, air, hydraulic) is they pass less fluid (oil, air) the more loading they have. In the case of most oil filters, they have a by-pass valve to divert oil flow when loaded. For air filters, you have to replace or wash out.
 
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From the K&N site; http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm  - Foam Amsoil LT-31 376 CFM K&N (used) (42,000 miles) K&N E-1500 463CFM Paper AC A348C; Fram CA326; Hastings AC-145; K-Mart KA-12; Motorcraft FA-71R 508 CFM K&N (clean) Filtercharger ® K&N E-1500 887 CFM [ June 19, 2002, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]
 

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I wonder about those tests that K&N does on their air filters though. Back when K&N first released their air filter for the LS1 f-bodies, guys were trying them out and doing dyno testing against the Fram air filter and the OEM air filter. In almost all cases, the Fram air filter dynoed 1 or 2 extra rear wheel hp than the OEM, and the K&N seemed to be about on par or maybe 1hp up on the OEM. So basically all the filters were the same, since the dyno isn't usually that accurate (I've seen my dyno numbers change by more than 2hp just from one run to the next with no changes) K&Ns claims on making 10hp or more from just a filter change are not true. The one thing that is true though is if you go with one of their full cold air kits, like the FIPK for the f-bodies, which definitely makes 10hp (I saw a one tenth reduction in my quarter mile time with a K&N FIPK on my 95 Trans Am I had a few years ago) But those gains come from eliminating the restrictive factory airbox, and adding a larger cone filter, not just changing the existing filter itself.
 
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That's another subject and it comes down to this. For most stock intakes, the filter is not the bottleneck. My engine at WOT and max RPM needs 475 CFM of flow. If the stock paper element flows that, then putting one that flows twice that will do nothing. But if a dirty K&N is flowing what a clean paper filter will flow, then you probably would see gains when both are dirty.
 

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That is a good point about the filter not being the bottleneck. In a lot of cars the MAF is a bottleneck, especially if it's a lot smaller than the throttle body.
 
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For Impala LT-1s the restriction is in the stock airbox and in the resonator. Cutting a hole in the side of the airbox and putting a 3" piece of pipe in place of the resonator allows enough flow for up to about 400 HP, but people still insist on fitting bigger MAFs and Throttle bodies to near stock engines. One popular MAF and TB is made by Granatelli. They will give no gains over stock, and you could have bought a 150 shot nitrous setup for about the same money. [Off Topic!] [ June 19, 2002, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]
 

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Hehe, we are definitely getting off topic, but you mentioned Granatelli and that reminds me of how much I would tell f-body owners to save their money and stay away from the $300 Granatelli MAFs. Instead, port your own throttle body for free. I even made up my own webpage showing LT1 and LS1 owners how to port their own MAF! www.geocities.com/gattls1/mafmod.html That site gets thousands of hits, and it's been up for a few years now and I still get at least two or three emails a week from people that are just learning about this mod and want to try it out. Funny thing is, my latest f-body still has the stock MAF on it, although that's because I am unsure of the route I'm going to take with this car as far as future modifications go. The LT1 guys don't seem to like ported MAFs as much as the LS1 guys either. It definitely worked on my LS1 (gave me 0.15 improvement in the 1/4) Sorry for the [Off Topic!] post. I'll crawl back to my corner now. [Smile]
 
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Guys, for what it's worth, I use a K&N cone filter on my Honda and after 7,200 miles on two different changes, the silicon levels were low. [Big Grin]
 
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So have opinions changed on this? I imagine most people don't think it is a good idea to go 35k anymore. [Smile]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Bror Jace: Guys, for what it's worth, I use a K&N cone filter on my Honda and after 7,200 miles on two different changes, the silicon levels were low. [Big Grin]
thanks for that real world data Bror Jace, I've run K&N filters on all my Hondas without any problems, nice to see some real data instead of listening to people rag on K&N filters because of how they are designed. Now for a question relating to long drain intervals: Hypothetical example - Okay given the same wear rate (per 1000 miles) on a given motor does running a motor oil with 50 ppm of aluminum, 50 ppm of iron, 15 ppm silicon at 10,000 miles do the motor any worse damage than running an oil with 5000 miles and 25ppm aluminum, 25ppm iron, and 7ppm silicon ?. The wear rate per 1000 miles are similar but every drop of oil in the 10,000 mile oil has more absolute particles in it to rub against metal parts of the engine. Changing the oil sooner keeps absolute numbers of particles lower and should be better for the engine IMO. Does this make sense ?. An oil may hold up for 10k miles, 15k miles, even 25k miles, but what does all the particles in the oil do to the engine over time ?. Any opinions ?
 
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Extended drains (>10,000) are intellectually interesting, but difficult to cost justify. My calculations show the costs for running 30,000 miles are: Dino every 3000 miles - $112.50 Mobil 1 Every 6000 mi - $212.50 Amsoil 0w30 Every 30,000 mi - $230 Assumptions: 1) 1 quart consumed every 3,000 miles 2) Dino costs 1.50, $3 filter, no analysis 3) M1 costs 5, $10 filter, no analysis 4) Amsoil costs 8, $10 filter, Analysis every 7500 with filter change - No Bypass Filter So there you have it. Makes Mobil 1 and Amsoil look like a bad deal except they win on convenience of fewer oil changes and some improved performance. [ December 23, 2002, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Giles ]
 
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I generally concur on the cost plus the Amsoil 0W30 will not go 30,000 miles in most engines. Not in mine anyway. So mostly piece of mind, hobby who knows. Cost, savings definitely not the reason
 
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Giles, I agree that synthetics are difficult to cost-justify, but your assumptions are a little unfair to the synthetics since you included a $10 filter w/synthetics and a $3 filter w/dino. I've always used the same filter whether I was running dino oil or Mobil 1. I did change the filter twice as often when running the Mobil 1, because I was running the oil twice as long.
 
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I have posted this before, but will do so again since its relevant. Here in South Africa, we have not seen 3000mi (5000km) for probably 15 to 20 years now. Our vehicles are mostly, if not all European and Japanese and the minimum OEM recommendation (excluding diesels) is 15000km (9375mi). But these boundaries are currently being pushed as well. Current OEM oil service intervals : Alfa's/Renaults/Peugots - 20000km (12500mi) BMW's - 24000km (15000 mi) Citroens - 30000km (18750mi) Even for the 15000km vehicles, the "dino" oils are "suitable/factory approved" for service fills, provided they meet the OEMS spec. eg. a VW 500.00 oil. Have a few mates who have done some major mileage on their vehicles before first overhaul - current record is 510000km (318000 mi) on good old fashioned dino oil (20W50 at that too !) on a 10000 km service interval. Personally the engineer in me says that 30000km (18750mi) is fine, with the Group IV's. However the emotional side says 25000km for most NA cars. Fortunately with my current car (VW GTI - 1.8T engine), the OEM recommended intervals are 15000km (9375mi - btw, I see the OEM filters are rated for 30 000 km, so theres more room here). I'm comfortable with that, turbo and all - will be willing to go 20000km before I start having sleepless nights about the oil in the sump !! [Big Grin]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Giles: Dino every 3000 miles - $112.50 Mobil 1 Every 6000 mi - $212.50 Amsoil 0w30 Every 30,000 mi - $230
IMHO, I reckon the Mobil 1 is definitely good for 12000 mi, and easily 15000 mi. This will perhaps change the cost equations a bit ? [Smile]
 
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Read the fine print on Amsoils website. That 25k or 35k oil is only good for 9k in my engine. It says for turbocharged engines use a mileage 3 times what the owners manual says. 25k is for ideal conditions. Who lives in a ideal world? Have no idea what the interval should be for Mobil 1 or other synthetics in that turbo engine. That makes syn oil much more expensive than dino. It's a 3k dino dose for me.
 
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