LC appears to darken my oil considerably

moribundman · Oct 14, 2005

First, I'll catch you up:

I ran M1 5W-40 for 8k miles. Oil consumption was ca 0.5 qt/1k miles. Oil remaind honey-colored to the end. UOA was good, but ARX was suggested.

ARX was used in M1 5W-40, followed by a rinse with Delo 400. No visible cleaning occurred, oil remained pretty light. Oil consumption with DELO was nearly zero.

M1 5W-40 was again put in. FP and LC have been used since. Oil consumption is now ca 0.3qt/1k miles, but after only 4k miles the oil is darker than I have ever seen it in my engine, and I used to 10k mile OCIs.

Does LC affect darkness of the oil, or is something else happening?

kgb007stb · Oct 14, 2005

Here is my observation, when I did run an auto-rx sample in my Probe it did clean the engine as I saw the carbon in the head dissolve and disappear. Then I added LC 1 oz per quart and drove it for 1000 mi, after which the oil stayed pretty light. So then I upped the dose to 10% which comes to about 3 oz per quart and 3oz every 1000mi after that. What I noticed is an immediate change in the color of the oil, I do only have 300mi since I upped the dosage to 10% but it sure is turning that oil dark fast.

On another car that has 100k miles, which I just bought and without any knowledge of prior maintenance, I put in the 1oz per quart and after only 200mi the oil started to get darker.

So here is my observation, the engine that was cleaned by auto-rx had to have the 10% concentration of LC to do its job where as in the engine with 100k on it 1oz per quart was more than enough to change the color of the oil.

Some people said that if you go over the 10% or 3oz per quart boundary on LC that it somehow shows greater wear on oil analysis. I have no way to confirm this statement as it is something that I have read from another BITOG member.

I do not have enough mileage on my LC samples but as time goes on I plan to run oil analysis to see what it is that LC is doing in the background.

mechtech · Oct 14, 2005

My first thought is that it is cleaning something, and the oil is darker as a result.

moribundman · Oct 14, 2005

I've been adding 5 ounces to the 5.2 qt sump as the first dose and then followed up with 1/2 oz every 500 miles. I want to keep the oil in for 8k miles, or at least this was my intention. I want to compare pre and post-ARX UOA data with the same oil after the same amount of miles.

Are suspended contaminants (for example soot) the only things that darken oil? Plain, clean oil won't turn dark with age, will it?

Chimay · Oct 14, 2005

I'll find out soon if it darkens the oil in my wife's car, I just received my LC & FP this week and plan on changing her oil and using LC . On LCD website it says not to overfill the crankcase. What would be overfilled? At 5 quarts you are adding 5 ounces. My truck at 6.5 quarts it will be 6.5 ounces.I am concerned that this is overfilled. Comments

Bill in Utah · Oct 14, 2005

I just add the LC first (what ever amount your to add) then put oil in after to the fill mark on the dipstick.

This way your getting the correct amount and there is no chance of overfilling the crankcase.

On the 2 outfits I've used it on, the oil is staying clear just as long as if it was not there, so I'd say my engines must be clean to start with.

Take care, Bill

Chimay · Oct 15, 2005

I change the oil this morning from Castrol 5w30 to M1 5w30 and 5 ounces of LC20.I also used a M1 oil filter. Only time will if it darkens quickly. I am running this in my wife's 2005 V6 Toyota Solara.

shavenstringer · Oct 15, 2005

My oil seemed to darken quickly the first 2 times I used LC as well. Now it seems to stay clearer longer than before I started using LC. It must be cleaning off all the varnish and some sludge from the engine. It also turned my power steering fluid black.

moribundman · Oct 16, 2005

Should I keep pushing to 8k miles despite the oil darkening this time around more than normally? I know that color is a poor indicator of oil condition, but if it's darkening because of suspended contaminants, I'm not sure I want to go another 4k miles.

Palut · Oct 16, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
Should I keep pushing to 8k miles despite the oil darkening this time around more than normally? I know that color is a poor indicator of oil condition, but if it's darkening because of suspended contaminants, I'm not sure I want to go another 4k miles.

FWIW, CI-4 oils are designed to suspend large amounts of soot without problems. I personally wouldn't change oil based on color unless it was jet black.

For example, my little brother let the oil level fall off the dipstick in our '85 Accord. It was due for a change when I discovered this, so we changed it. 600 miles later, the new oil was absolutely JET BLACK. So we changed it out early, and the next OCI stayed clear much longer. I figure it was cleaning out what was deposited because of the neglect during the previous OCI.

ChiTDI · Oct 16, 2005

moirbundman-
I ran the UOA as Jeff at LC suggested, and found a slight glycol leak because of coolant pellets (GM issue) not added. Made a difference to the color of the oil, like you might think, that I was attributing to the LC.
Hope this helps :
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=003142;p=1

RB Shannon · Oct 16, 2005

"Should I keep pushing to 8k miles despite the oil darkening this time around more than normally? I know that color is a poor indicator of oil condition, but if it's darkening because of suspended contaminants, I'm not sure I want to go another 4k miles."

You could do a blotter test with a business card to get a rough idea of the oils dispersency.I'm using LC in a 91 Sporttrak and it got very dark at 2k, so I blotted it and it didn't look all that bad,at 3k it was slightly darker on the card but still looked good.

moribundman · Oct 17, 2005

Palut, yes, an oil rated for diesel engines should be able to handle lot of soot/carbon -- if that's what's making the oil dark.

ChiTDI, I remember about the coolant pellets that the dealer wanted to use in my Buick. Ack! I don't think my Audi is leaking coolant. I check the level regularly and it remains the same.
The link goes to an interesting thread. The last question in the thread remains unanswered. What stuff exactly can LC remove that ARX hasn't removed?

Arby, I gave up on blotter tests. The changes between the stains on blotter paper were miniscule. If I do another blotter test, will you "read it" for me? I can supply a picture of an old image for comparison.

ChiTDI · Oct 17, 2005

Right, I've read that maybe and I repeat maybe it's the varnish that the LC is attacking that the A-Rx didn't get.
I've used both products, and can't really complain about either. The amount of LC to use is a possible issue. Reading back through posts from a couple of years, the suggested amounts have changed, so there may be some fine tuning going on. Dunno myself, but the guys at LC Products may be able to tell you directly.
Good luck and enjoy the Audi!

Intrepid · Oct 17, 2005

A few months ago when my LC products arrived, I noticed there was two differences in how much LC20 to add to my oil crankcase. The measuring bottle says to add 2oz for every quart of oil, while the LC20 bottle says to use 1oz for every quart of oil.

So I called up the company in Houston, and the guy was very friend in answering my questions. He said LC has extra measuring bottles from the old owner, and the previous owner recommended 2oz for every quart of oil on the initial dose.

Well I can't remember this other group, but they told the new owner of LC that maybe 2oz is too much for a every quart of oil. But now this oil group, I think is on this site, is saying, "You know what, maybe the previous owner was right in recommending 2oz per quart because we're seeing better results with this initial dose."

This is what the rep. of LC told me, and he said even adding 3oz per quart on the initial dose isn't going to hurt anything.........it's just probably a waste of extra LC20, hence why the LC20 bottle recommends just 1oz per quart of oil. But the rep told me I probably picked the right amount in going with 2oz per quart of oil.

So there you have it.

Clement · Oct 17, 2005

I noticed something similar witht he LC too when I started using it. My oil would get dark very quickly. Now however, after a number of oci's using LC (10 or so)my oil has started staying lighter. Right now, I have about 4000K miles on my oil and it's not black yet!

I'm assuming the initial darkness was due to cleaning. Now it doesn't have much cleaning to do, so the oil stays lighter.

ChiTDI · Oct 17, 2005

Right now, I have about 4000K miles on my oil and it's not black yet!

Is it liquid?
I gotta get some of that stuff!

Dr. T · Oct 17, 2005

Mori, you're experiencing the cleaning effect of LC. I too performed 10k OCI's...

I have never used auto-rx, but only LC. The first 1-2 OCI's with LC will cause the oil to darken quicker and I changed it out sooner than normal as a result. Then, as the other's have observed, the oil should stay cleaner longer.

The weird thing is I experience a spike of increased consumption with each addition of LC before tapering off for the next 800-900k mi....when is your consumption occuring?

Intrepid · Oct 18, 2005

Wait a second.....LC causes an increase of oil consumption?

If so thats good news for me. I thought something was wrong with my Intrepid for a second. Back in May I changed the oil using M1 of course, and after 500 miles I checked the dipstick before starting my car in the morning. The dipstick read about an inch below the full MAX mark.........I started to worry about this oil consumption after just 500 miles.

But a month ago I added the LC20.....9oz to my oil so maybe the LC20 is causing my Intrepid to consume oil quicker?

moribundman · Oct 18, 2005

quote:

The weird thing is I experience a spike of increased consumption with each addition of LC before tapering off for the next 800-900k mi....when is your consumption occuring?

Dr. T, from what you and others have reported I will go along with the "LC is cleaning something" theory. I do however not notice increased oil consumption. In fact, consumption is down compared to pre-ARX and pre-LC. Even better if consumption will be further reduced once the LC has cleaned out more.

LC appears to darken my oil considerably

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