Kia CV - 62 miles of range - charge in 4 minutes

[4WD]

I now see miles and miles of corn … on what was once ranch land … that’s for fuel
GTL can make a cleaner diesel but the investment is significant … and over the years the refining side has developed ULS fuels … along came def. Bio fuel R&D has been going on for years … and jets have been flown … but of course being one of the top 3 costs for airlines it has to be reasonable sooner than later.
In the meantime … the aircraft fleet is being changed out to more efficient planes …
There are now many more ICE vehicles that get outstanding MPG … Commercial use of CNG … Of course, now add Hybrids and EV in growing numbers.

Don’t think anything is going backwards … just not fast enough in a specific direction to fit certain narratives

 

[wdn]

Recharges 62 miles worth of driving in “just” 4 minutes. In my Corolla 62 miles is two gallons of gasoline, which only takes 12 seconds to pump.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Recharges 62 miles worth of driving in “just” 4 minutes. In my Corolla 62 miles is two gallons of gasoline, which only takes 12 seconds to pump.

I love Corollas. I kinda joke Model 3s are the new Corolla.
My Corolla charges in the garage. So 12 seconds (plus driving to station, wiaiting, etc) is infinitely longer than my Corolla.

 

[paqza]

How so do you reckon though? My car isn't the most efficient by any means and I can completely fill the tank in 3-4 mins and have around 275-300 miles of range. Approximately how long does an EV need to charge on average to get that much range? Honestly don't know, but asking... As with any other battery type in life, faster charge rates do diminish battery quality/longevity and I've never seen that hurdle neutralized regardless of battery type. Battery technology/improvement seems to be at a snail's pace these days as only so much can be done with what we have to work with.

It's a different use case. With a battery EV, you wind up "saving" a LOT more time "fueling up" because 98% of the time, you just pull into your driveway / garage and plug it in. You don't actually use those fast chargers unless you're actually going on a longer trip.

With a gasoline-powered car, you have to drive out of your way and fuel up at a dirty gas station. Most people don't realize how much time you actually lose going out of your way to the gas station and pumping.

I drive ~90 miles a day for work and I'd save about 15min a week in fueling if I had an EV instead of my gasoline-powered car.

 

[paqza]

Recharges 62 miles worth of driving in “just” 4 minutes. In my Corolla 62 miles is two gallons of gasoline, which only takes 12 seconds to pump.

Of course, you're not taking into consideration the time it takes to go to the gas station. Imagine if you had a "pump" in your driveway or garage.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Of course, you're not taking into consideration the time it takes to go to the gas station. Imagine if you had a "pump" in your driveway or garage.

And you had solar panels so you charge for free.
Or you charge at work for free or for a subsidized rate. Not to mention preferred parking...
EV charging (and ownership) is highly understood.
Having said that, EVs are not for everyone. Like many things, I imagine.

 

[meep]

The battery problem, while a significant one with current Lithium battery technology, is secondary to having a safe way for people handling a 2.7MW connection interface as well as the sourcing of that electricity, which will require massive transmission and generation expansion and that means a large nuclear build-out to support it.

We've had "alternative" energy for the better part of 70 years (an alternative to oil, which I assume is what you are alluding to) in the form of nuclear power. Transportation is but the "last mile" in achieving deep decarbonization. The power grid, heating, those are other huge consumers of fossil fuels. Shipping is another, and then there is flight, which will arguably be the most difficult due to the nature of jet propulsion and will therefore require some sort of alternative fuel that can provide the same utility. Batteries can't do thrust.

IF there is a storage breakthrough, that is, a technology that can reliably charge at the rate we are discussing, be significantly lighter and last 10+ years in service, then we have all those other bits to deal with still. We aren't new to electricity or the requirements for safely handling high current/voltage interfaces, it's making that workable for "average Joe" that will require some work, and making it durable enough.

It's a multi-faceted problem is my point, it isn't just a battery issue.

good math, and on your earlier post as well. I don’t particularly find any comfort standing next to or handling the main breakers to the building. Maybe it’s just me, but there’s a lot happening within inches of the handle. The current these batteries carry is incredible, and dumping a fast charge into them is technologically amazing. at a fast charge station, youd be handling it, and the 5 folks around you. You either need a really high voltage for the transfer, or thick, thick copper (or chilled ceramics/low resistance tech), or it’s a resistance fire waiting to happen. Connector quality on the vehicle and charge station would be a thing too, especially in coastal areas. Can you imagine the transmission lines into the station? HUMMMMMMmmmmmm. And would I want my 16 y.o. child handling it? I know there are safety systems... But that’s a LOT of juice, right there.

with gasoline, if you spill it, it sits there. If you stab the tank with a pick, it drains. It becomes dangerous when there’s an external spark. With batteries, you’re sitting atop miles of two materials, impossibly close together, which will unleash fury if physically distorted. They want to react, desperately. as odd as it sounds, I am still uneasy with sitting atop a massive battery which could arc me to charcoal in a few milliseconds. hybrids don’t freak me out as much.

that said, I still expect to have an EV in my lifetime. I’m in my late 40s. We don’t plan to buy another gas car... The ones we have should last long enough. I could although see a hybrid in the middle. Come on Volvo, get it right.....

I can’t remember the concept, maybe it was “agenda setting,” how people and businesses adapt to the circumstances surrounding them and vice versa. I think we make a big deal about how hard the change is, and then we get all double freaked out the fear we’ve made about how hard it will be. Then we take a stance based on the fervor.... I like the pace we’re moving at, and believe it will work out nicely over time. sign me up for a 20kw of PV on my roof, please and thank you.

m

 

[Spyderman24_7]

It's a different use case. With a battery EV, you wind up "saving" a LOT more time "fueling up" because 98% of the time, you just pull into your driveway / garage and plug it in. You don't actually use those fast chargers unless you're actually going on a longer trip.

With a gasoline-powered car, you have to drive out of your way and fuel up at a dirty gas station. Most people don't realize how much time you actually lose going out of your way to the gas station and pumping.

I drive ~90 miles a day for work and I'd save about 15min a week in fueling if I had an EV instead of my gasoline-powered car.

Actually I always try to include a station stop in my route so no time/distance is really wasted. Dunno about the 'dirty station' part either as all the places I fuel up at keep things quite clean.

 

[Cujet]

It's a different use case. With a battery EV, you wind up "saving" a LOT more time "fueling up" because 98% of the time, you just pull into your driveway / garage and plug it in.

I wouldn't.

First off, I'm selling my house, and moving to a rental. I won't have a place to charge.
Second, I travel long distances. Today I'm only going 400 miles. Other days, it's as much as 1200 per leg. The EV adds an epic amount of time to long trips.

 

[wdn]

Right like you guys are all going to install a 600 amp electrical service into your house just so you can fuel up the electric car. Meanwhile Texas cannot even keep the lights on. Add the cost of the electrician service plus that charging station cost to cost of ownership. Maybe I will just install a 1,000 gallon tank and a gas pump on my property too. Of course I don’t have to because there are dozens of gas stations within a two mile radius, and zero charging stations.

 

[Job]

Right like you guys are all going to install a 600 amp electrical service into your house just so you can fuel up the electric car. Meanwhile Texas cannot even keep the lights on. Add the cost of the electrician service plus that charging station cost to cost of ownership. Maybe I will just install a 1,000 gallon tank and a gas pump on my property too. Of course I don’t have to because there are dozens of gas stations within a two mile radius, and zero charging stations.

With an economical gas car the cost for energy can be less than an ev. I liked how Ford F 150’s were used to give some people electricity in their homes. It’s going to be gas and ev’s not all ev’s, no way it can be done in probably 50 years to go all ev. Texas disaster just from cold weather can never be allowed to happen again.

 

[supton]

Right like you guys are all going to install a 600 amp electrical service into your house just so you can fuel up the electric car. Meanwhile Texas cannot even keep the lights on. Add the cost of the electrician service plus that charging station cost to cost of ownership. Maybe I will just install a 1,000 gallon tank and a gas pump on my property too. Of course I don’t have to because there are dozens of gas stations within a two mile radius, and zero charging stations.

Most houses are getting 200A service, and the power company wouldn't mind us charging at night, off peak electrical demand, so as to better load-level. 6, 8, 10 hours to charge in? Most are not running their EV flat out of charge on their commuting needs. Thus, it should be able to charge overnight, and not require a separate 200A service.

I do agree that the electrical infrastructure is a bit of an unknown. But it certainly isn't going to go away, and EV or not, I don't think anyone is going to put up with that sort of failure.

 

[OVERKILL]

Most houses are getting 200A service, and the power company wouldn't mind us charging at night, off peak electrical demand, so as to better load-level. 6, 8, 10 hours to charge in? Most are not running their EV flat out of charge on their commuting needs. Thus, it should be able to charge overnight, and not require a separate 200A service.

I do agree that the electrical infrastructure is a bit of an unknown. But it certainly isn't going to go away, and EV or not, I don't think anyone is going to put up with that sort of failure.

Yes, at home charging doesn't require anything more than 125A service really if you don't have everything electric. 200A is more than fine for the typical dryer plug install (which is what I have at home). Charge rate isn't super important with overnight charging and quite frankly it's better for both the batteries and the demand profile on the grid to draw it out over several hours.

 

[Silverado12]

A little off-subject but I wonder why natural gas never became popular. Any car can run off it (even diesels) and it burns a lot cleaner than gas. It's also abundant in the Eastern USA. That being said, I can't really do an electric car at this time because I travel long distances.

 

[UncleDave]

A little off-subject but I wonder why natural gas never became popular. Any car can run off it (even diesels) and it burns a lot cleaner than gas. It's also abundant in the Eastern USA. That being said, I can't really do an electric car at this time because I travel long distances.

Couple of reasons,

Lack of a comprehensive distribution network

Comparatively low energy density (approx 40% less than gasoline)

Distrust of pressurized storage onboard sometimes in the trunk

Love NG as a heating and genset fuel.

 

[paqza]

I wouldn't.

First off, I'm selling my house, and moving to a rental. I won't have a place to charge.
Second, I travel long distances. Today I'm only going 400 miles. Other days, it's as much as 1200 per leg. The EV adds an epic amount of time to long trips.

Sounds like a hybrid would work a lot better for you than a pure EV. You've gotta use the best tool for the job. For my daily 90-100mi commute, an EV would make perfect sense. I "waste" a ton of time getting gas, changing oil, running GDI cleaner, changing transmission fluid, etc. I also have a place to charge, and electricity is way cheaper than gas for me.

My real "problem" is $$$. Right now, the only EV with good enough range to cover my needs is a used Bolt, but honestly, that car is a piece of crap.

I'm looking forward to being able to pay low 30s for an EV with at a sub-6.5 0-60 and a 250+ mile true range. The batteries not catching fire (Bolt/Kona) would be a nice plus.

For longer road trips, we've got the minivan.

 

[paqza]

Actually I always try to include a station stop in my route so no time/distance is really wasted. Dunno about the 'dirty station' part either as all the places I fuel up at keep things quite clean.

Any time I have to touch a gas pump nozzle handle, it's "dirty" because other people are touching it and nobody's sanitizing. Unless you live in Jersey or Oregon, any gas station's "dirty". Changing your route to include a station and having to stop at a station costs you time. If you can plug in when you get home or work, there's zero time wasted.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Sounds like a hybrid would work a lot better for you than a pure EV. You've gotta use the best tool for the job. For my daily 90-100mi commute, an EV would make perfect sense. I "waste" a ton of time getting gas, changing oil, running GDI cleaner, changing transmission fluid, etc. I also have a place to charge, and electricity is way cheaper than gas for me.

My real "problem" is $$$. Right now, the only EV with good enough range to cover my needs is a used Bolt, but honestly, that car is a piece of crap.

I'm looking forward to being able to pay low 30s for an EV with at a sub-6.5 0-60 and a 250+ mile true range. The batteries not catching fire (Bolt/Kona) would be a nice plus.

For longer road trips, we've got the minivan.

You can get a 2018 Model 3 around here for mid 30's or less, depending on mileage, etc.

 

[paqza]

Cant wait for the recalls and class action lawsuits this Kia will have.

You still have that with ICE, too. It's part of the industry. Bad airbags and bad battery packs are both dangerous. The tech will get safer and better; gas-powered cars have had a hundred years to evolve to their current state.

 

[Spyderman24_7]

Any time I have to touch a gas pump nozzle handle, it's "dirty" because other people are touching it and nobody's sanitizing. Unless you live in Jersey or Oregon, any gas station's "dirty". Changing your route to include a station and having to stop at a station costs you time. If you can plug in when you get home or work, there's zero time wasted.

Well it's not difficult to keep a pair of gloves onhand for that sort of thing and because I make deliveries often I always have sanitizing wipes and do clean my hands after pumping gas. I never go out of my way for fuel as I always find a station along any route I take. I'm sure electric vehicles work fine for many people, just wouldn't be very practical for my use. No place to plug in at a rented townhouse, the charge stations are few and far between unless in much larger cities than what I spend most time in, etc.