Kendall FS 5w-30 -6,405mi -2011 F150 Ecoboost 3.5L

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Well, its probably not all that common, but with maybe a one half of one percent error rate, over the course of say, thirty oil changes during our ownership of a car, that's a significant chance of at least one screw up along the way. If its slightly out of spec oil and only once, likely no harm done.


Wow, really? Call FORD, not the dealer, and ask them if putting 5w-20 oil in the ECOBOOST, which specs 5w-30, will void the powertrain warranty!

Most dealers are also using BULK oil which I suspect is not MC semi or full-synthetic. They use a straight dino oil that meets the Ford spec. Likewise, local Wally World here uses bulk oil that costs $2 a quart..
 
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Originally Posted By: jimbrewer

Of course, the error rate doesn't drop to zero just because we do it ourselves. Either way, its another reason to heed DNewton's advice to run the oil to the end of its service life.


Excellent. Just adding that at least I can blame myself, AND I'm man enough to own up to it.

Most stealerships will fight you tooth and nail over their errors!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer

Of course, the error rate doesn't drop to zero just because we do it ourselves. Either way, its another reason to heed DNewton's advice to run the oil to the end of its service life.


Excellent. Just adding that at least I can blame myself, AND I'm man enough to own up to it.

Most stealerships will fight you tooth and nail over their errors!


+1
 
Aren't we being a bit paranoid? I know Volk has some reason to think he was given 5-20W by accident, but given the amount of shearing that took place on his subsequent changes, it seems to me the jury is still out on that one.

Sure, Ford would probably never accept you putting 5-20 into the engine by mistake, but that's my point. If it happens on their watch, they have to either pretend it never happened and pay, or admit it happened--and pay. If Volk is correct in his belief that 5-20W was put in his car by accident, then I stand by my statement that no harm was done, based on the similarity of his numbers from one change to the next.

I would think that your local Ford dealer would be less inclined to substitute brand X for Motorcraft than any other high-volume lube place. Ford seems to go to great lengths to make sure their house brand is good oil. I assume its to hold down warranty claims, rather than good fellowship. They also have exploited their quality to build a considerable business to non-Ford retail buyers As I mentioned, Ford has a very extensive extended factory warranty business and therefore another positive incentive beyond that of most dealers. If Ford allowed the selling of Brand X oil at all, I am absolutely positively sure they would come down on the dealer like a ton of bricks if there were any misrepresentation involved.

Sure, you can provide your own oil and filter to the dealer, (I assume you insist on the return of the empty bottles, right?) but that only mitigates the problem. There's still plenty and perhaps even increased opportunity for the dealer to screw up, e.g. drop a plastic cap or a piece of tin-foil into the crankcase.

I'm glad and I don't doubt you guys would "man up" and admit your own mistake in changing oil, but that is not the point. The point is the grease monkeys maybe have a 1/2 of 1 percent chance of screwing up. You have maybe a 1/4 of 1 percent chance of screwing up. The difference is Ford has to take a considerable amount of the risk of the screw up if they do the work.
 
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Aren't we being a bit paranoid? I know Volk has some reason to think he was given 5-20W by accident, but given the amount of shearing that took place on his subsequent changes, it seems to me the jury is still out on that one.

Sure, Ford would probably never accept you putting 5-20 into the engine by mistake, but that's my point. If it happens on their watch, they have to either pretend it never happened and pay, or admit it happened--and pay. If Volk is correct in his belief that 5-20W was put in his car by accident, then I stand by my statement that no harm was done, based on the similarity of his numbers from one change to the next.

I would think that your local Ford dealer would be less inclined to substitute brand X for Motorcraft than any other high-volume lube place. Ford seems to go to great lengths to make sure their house brand is good oil. I assume its to hold down warranty claims, rather than good fellowship. They also have exploited their quality to build a considerable business to non-Ford retail buyers As I mentioned, Ford has a very extensive extended factory warranty business and therefore another positive incentive beyond that of most dealers. If Ford allowed the selling of Brand X oil at all, I am absolutely positively sure they would come down on the dealer like a ton of bricks if there were any misrepresentation involved.

Sure, you can provide your own oil and filter to the dealer, (I assume you insist on the return of the empty bottles, right?) but that only mitigates the problem. There's still plenty and perhaps even increased opportunity for the dealer to screw up, e.g. drop a plastic cap or a piece of tin-foil into the crankcase.

I'm glad and I don't doubt you guys would "man up" and admit your own mistake in changing oil, but that is not the point. The point is the grease monkeys maybe have a 1/2 of 1 percent chance of screwing up. You have maybe a 1/4 of 1 percent chance of screwing up. The difference is Ford has to take a considerable amount of the risk of the screw up if they do the work.


I THINK? They CONFIRMED to me they did! I did not do a UOA on that change due to the fact they used 5w20. Did it do any damage? Probably not. If a mechanical failure happened and Ford said it was 5w20 instead of the spec 5w30 so they voided my claim, do you really think the dealer will admit to FORD they used the wrong spec'd oil? Your crazy if you think they will. The mess up factor is higher than .5%, theres no way they get everything correct on every 1 out of 100 vehicles. Most fords only stock 5w20 in bulk and 15w40. If I mitigate them by using my own oil MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Who opens a bottle of oil directly over a fill hole for a cap to fall into? Bottled oils do not use foil caps, only jugs. Do you work for a dealership? You have to way much faith in stealerships.
 
The known out of spec oil change is the one where I'd want a UOA above all others.

Who would drop foil or a cap down a crankcase? a clueless, even malevolent, indifferent, stoned, hung-over minimum wage worker might. Other bad stuff might be wrong filter, improperly attached filter, cross-threaded plug, loosely affixed plug stripped plug, the guy who gets two cars mixed up and forgets to put in new oil at all, or gets distracted and puts in half a load..... I'd say my half percent error rate is pretty high because the dealer has opportunity to put procedures in place to minimize the risk. It means at least a minor screw up every couple of weeks at a busy dealership.

The dealer on the other hand, has quite a lot to lose by knowingly using the wrong oil. He has to at least keep the proper spec oil in stock for the Ecoboosts. Ford knows who is ordering oil from them right? A busy dealer quits ordering much oil and I would think they would get suspicious. The first time I went down there, the guy in front of me very carefully confirmed that he has getting Motorcraft semi-syn oil. the counterman volunteered with such a demeanor I believed him. But what if the customer was a shill for Ford and not a real customer? It would probably be their franchise if they got caught, especially if the dealer was using rotten oil that would blow up the Ecoboosts and not merely a competing in-spec brand.
 
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
The known out of spec oil change is the one where I'd want a UOA above all others.

Who would drop foil or a cap down a crankcase? a clueless, even malevolent, indifferent, stoned, hung-over minimum wage worker might. Other bad stuff might be wrong filter, improperly attached filter, cross-threaded plug, loosely affixed plug stripped plug, the guy who gets two cars mixed up and forgets to put in new oil at all, or gets distracted and puts in half a load.....

The ford dealer should be hiring certified technicians anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
The known out of spec oil change is the one where I'd want a UOA above all others.

Who would drop foil or a cap down a crankcase? a clueless, even malevolent, indifferent, stoned, hung-over minimum wage worker might. Other bad stuff might be wrong filter, improperly attached filter, cross-threaded plug, loosely affixed plug stripped plug, the guy who gets two cars mixed up and forgets to put in new oil at all, or gets distracted and puts in half a load.....

The ford dealer should be hiring certified technicians anyway.


Note that I worked in stealerships for years, they frequently used complete monkeys for the oil changers. They supposedly operated under the "supervision" of a certified tech but the bottom line is unless the Stealership is lacking work no certified mechanic will be changing your oil.

You won't make any money unless you know how to work the flat rate book!
 
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