Kawasaki FX651v 22hp oil recommendation change

[varmint]

I think you could do 3 or 4 oil changes on a fram ultra. Your engine is new and if you change your air cleaner when needed
there won't be any or very little dirt. The air filter is the most important filter. On my FX850 there is two air filter, an outer filter
that catches probably 95% of the dirt/ etc. and a inter filter for super fine stuff. I vacuum off the outer filter twice a year and
its good to go. I have a filter minder on the air filter. I wouldn't worry about the oil filter, if it is a car size filter it will never
reach Delta P.

 

[coder]

Yes, I have the Donaldson air box fitted on my Fr691, with a filter minder. As I recall, the outer filter does the filtering, the inner is intended just a "backup" aka safety filter, although it must contribute something. The filtering efficiency of the Cylindricals is even better than 95, forget what it is exactly, but I remember it was insanely good when I looked at it.
I remember all the admonishments against trying to clean an air filter. When the minder says it is clogged, I just plan on replacing the outer filter. The main purpose of having a minder is to be able to avoid taking out the filter for inspection / cleaning.

With a brand new outer, oR perhaps with the inner alone, the minder than should be able to read how the inner filter is doing.
So when I read it going above 3 inches ( water) I replace that too.

My reasoning for adding the Donaldson airbox was exactly what you outlined.
Reading up on air filters was an eye opener, I realized I was approaching the topic entirely incorrectly for decades.
All my filter changes were just educated guesses with huge safety margins, and my oil filter changes still are.
I wish there was some way to add an oil filter minder in line to make that evidence based also.

 

[varmint]

You're correct, the outer traps everything. The inner looks more like a dust filter. I've never seen anything on the
inner and it stays pure white. I have had my ZTR for 12 years and only changed 1 outer. When I vacuum I'm not
touching the paper part of the filter, it has a metal screen to protect paper. All I'm cleaning is large debris and sand.
Next outer change, I will change the inner too.

 

[thastinger]

I've got a 22 year old Kawasaki FH500V on a Wright Stander mower, has a little over 1500 hours on it, has always had some version of rotella in it

 

[coder]

Yes, I read the Donaldson site, the inner filter explained as a "safety filter".
Only supposed to come into play if there is a hole in the outer filter.
It does not surprise me that the outer filter captures all the dirt.
I think that is how it is supposed to work. The inner is not a "finer"
or "finishing" filter but a "less substantial" backup filter, with less dirt holding capacity. I think, it is not expected to be exposed at all, unless there is a hole in the outer.

I presume you are changing the filter based on the filter minder
indication. With a brand new inner/outer combo, I see 1 inch restriction.
I am planning on replacing the outer, when it gets to 7-8 inches, maybe even less. What do you do?

After replacing the outer filter, if the minder reads 1 inch again (after reset,
and a mowing session) , IMO there is no need to replace the inner. I would only replace it, if the minder read something higher with a brand new outer. Because, with a new outer, I should be seeing the effect of the inner filter, if it is clogged. After all, the point of having a minder is to
institute "evidence based" filter changes, right?

You had it long enough to have seen filter minder changes, so you have some data. How long did the outer filter last for you?
What was the restriction at that point?
What was the restriction after the outer filter change?
Did it go back to 1 " ? If it did, the inner filter is pristine and no
need to replace it.

 

[varmint]

My oem kawasaki air cleaner is made by Fleetguard. The Kaw engine manual recommends replacing outer at 250 hrs.
and inter at 500 hrs. Fleetguard recommends replacing inner filter after 3 outer filter changes. FG statement on clearing
filter: Use a standard shopvac . Move the vacuum nozzle slowly up and down the pleats on the dirty side of filter. Do
not bring nozzle in connect with filter element at any time. The secondary ( inter ) filter should never be cleaned. On my
filter housing is a threaded 1/8 pipe nipple, so I add a filter minder. My lowest graduation is 6 inchs of H2O and I've
never seen it above a guesstimate of 2. I changed my primary filter, which was 12 years old, on Jan. 2021. It was working
fine, but I just felt like changing it. I think I read someplace that a reading of 15 inches of H2O was max for a non turbo
gasoline engine. Anything above 6 I would change. Outers are fairly cheap and easy to get.

 

[coder]

Hi Varmint,
The entire point of having a minder on your filter is to eliminate guesswork
from the filter change decision, and to eliminate visual inspection and cleaning. The clean and dirty filter restriction values will depend on the engine . The "clean" ( or "initial") Filter restriction is air volume dependent, and air volume in turn depends on RPM, and engine displacement. For example for a large diesel engine, the minder may starts at 15" and reads up to 30". This is the only reason I did not put minders on all of
our cars, because I am unable to determine the correct restriction range to use for the different engines we have. I am pretty sure it is totally different for a v6 vs. a 1.6 Liter turbo 4 banger.

For our situation, we can generalize the typical 3600rpm max, and 20-30 hp small v-twin air cooled engines: the clean reading is around 1 inch, and the max reading (when we should be replacing the outer filter) is 8". So 6" or even 4" make sense to me, although ideally the manufacturer should tell us what is the max filter restriction "recommended" for our specific engine. This info is surprisingly hard to get out of them.

I bet you woudl get many years out of the outer filter even if you change it at 4". Time wise there is probably not a big difference between 4" and 8" because the filter clogging first goes slow, than in the end it goes up fast.

The various recommendations about cleaning and replacing air filters based on visual inspection and operating time is not relevant when you have a minder which _measures_ the filter restriction already.
The filter minder reading should be the only thing we go by as it is a direct measurement of the only thing that matters, the filter restriction value.

It is easy to see that if we went by operating hours, we are not taking into consideration how dusty our operating conditions are. For example,
I have a bagger on my Gravely, which blows dust and debris at the air box. So I presume that does not help my filter life. So at the "recommended" time, I may be way past the filter change time, while someone else with less dusty operating conditions may be only half way through.

The filter minder tells us exactly where we are. IMO those lame
recommendations are for people who do not have a filter minder.

Inspecting or cleaning a filter is controversial. It gives an opportunity for the filter to not re-seat correctly, because the rubber seal became rigid over time, and/or formed to the connection. It is also too easy to contaminate the clean side of the filter. Whether a cleaning is effective
at all , is easy to determine based on the minder reading before and after. You can reset the minder, and it will re-read the highest restriction over a mowing session. If the number went down after the filter cleaning, the cleaning did something. Otherwise it was strictly a feel-good measure.
Given that a dirty filter actually filters better than a clean one, so as long as the restriction remains "OK", there is not point in touching it. Similarly, after replacing the outer, I would do the same thing (which you have to do anyway) . If the minder with the new outer reads higher than 1", I would use that as the "sole" criteria to replace the inner. As long as the outer filter change resets the restriction back to 1", I would be content to leave the inner filter alone. I see no reason to touch it.