K&N oil filters

[Patman]

With specs like that I have to ask one question:

Why on earth is this filter so dang expensive??

I thought it had better specs than that, it's disappointing cuz I have one on my wife's car right now, and one more waiting to go on the next oil change too. I paid $14.99 each, and that was the sale price up here! (normally they are $17.99!)

 

[Terry]

I think they are expensive because they have a high burst strength, supposedly high flow rate or low restriction, good impulse fatique strength, and a anti-drainback valve that basically won't leakdown.

Oh and the handy nut to remove the filter.

I didn't realise they were that expensive Patman.

 

[Patman]

The thing is though, the Mobil 1 filter is just as strong, and has all those same features as the K&N (except for the nut), plus the better media, yet sells for roughly the same price.

[ July 05, 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Al]

K&N is slightly thicker than Mobil 1. its $10 in Pa. I have been using it lately. I may switch back to Mobil 1. I don't think any us knows the size of any particles at a specific efficiency-I know I don't.

 

[Terry]

I believe the M1 filter is much more restrictive and thus probably see's bypass mode more often.

 

[Terry]

I read recently where someone here stated that this oil filter has a synthetic media. It does not unless they changed recently.

It uses a resin impregnated paper that has a area of 377 sq.in. The paper is rated at 50% efficient @16 microns
98% @35 microns

Actual HS 806 tests show capacity @ 12.5 grams

weighted average efficiency 89%

The media paper listed above is not just pulp but probably includes a polyester component like AC does.
Ny data is from 1999 testing and Champion Labs.

 

[Al]

Filter K&N SuperTech

Cost $10 , $2
Type HP-2001 , ST 3980
Element Length 3.375 , 3.375
# Pleats 59 , 53
Media Quality thinner , thicker
Spring Single Leaf, Double Leaf
Inlet Holes 6 , 8 Larger Holes
Shell Thickness .019"-.022" , .013"-.016"

AntiDrainback Valve Both similar material, slightly different design

Bypass valves None None

These filters are the equivalent of PF-52

Conclusions: I would Buy either. The element on the Supertech was more uniform spacing. Both are champion Labs. I basically like the heavier construction of the K&N-which is probably overkill.

 

[Patman]

The heavier construction would be more needed if the filter was hanging down in a precarious position though. Such as on the LS1 f-body or even the LT1 f-body. When using the longer versions of these filters, they hang down low enough (esp on the LS1) that the possibility of getting hit by a rock is there. So having this thick can for a filter is definitely a little bit of added insurance.

 

[VaderSS]

quote:

---

I believe the M1 filter is much more restrictive and thus probably see's bypass mode more often.

---

Where do you get this belief from? I've run the PF-52 version, M201, to 11k and not had it plug up.

 

[Patman]

According to that SHO website article I posted a few days ago, the Mobil 1 filter is not quite set up for high performance applications (and faster oil flow) as the K&N filter is.

 

[Terry]

VaderSS, Bypass during pressure surges/spikes on cold start,high RPm accel,etc. You won't know it unless you check the filter often or it sticks in bypass mode. Any FF that has the efficiency rating like M1 CHampion labs filter will bypass more frequently than a lower efficiency filter like the K&N champion labs filter.

The new computerized and injected cars are worse for the bypass problem because of the high idle mode and quick start. If you add a oil that is thick at start it also contributes to the bypass scenario.

 

[VaderSS]

Has anyone tested this theory? Has anyone flowed one of these filters and seen enough of a pressure drop to cause a bypass condition?

quote:

---

Our advanced oil filter uses synthetic fibers, which leave your vehicle with cleaner oil and an engine that performs better and lasts longer. When used with Mobil 1 fully synthetic motor oil, our Mobil 1 High Efficiency Oil Filter offers the best protection for your engine.
Benefits:

Removes more contaminants than conventional filters by using synthetic fibers.
Reduces resistance to oil flow while improving filter efficiency.
Withstands up to five times the normal system operating pressure.
Helps engines last longer.

---

Granted, this is advertising, but this idea that the M1 is more restrictive seems to be theory and opinion. The thing about the synthetic media is that it can have a more uniform mesh than with cellulose, giving more overall flow area, while filtering down to a finer level.

[ July 16, 2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]

 

[Terry]

I've certainly seen it Vader, That kind of data is a closly held secret amongst filter manufactorers. In fact if you can find the mobil1 filter data i'd bet the BPV opening dP is showing 0's. The purely synthetic medias of Donaldson and Fleetguard for example would have very high efficiency ratings but not as high as a mix like the M1 or Amsoil/baldwin is.

 

[VaderSS]

How does the AC Ultraguard flow at high rates and filter to 8 microns?

Mobil 1 Filter Data sheet;

http://www.mobil.ie/mobil_productdata/automotive/transmission/oilfilterpds_content.html

Filter shell is .022, same as K&N

Hydrostatic Burst is 600PSI, 550 for K&N

K&N Filter

http://www.knfilters.com/oilfilter.htm

[ July 16, 2002, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Is AMSoil's filter testing data bogus then? Because as far as dust holding capacity, they rated the Mobil1 extremely high, just a notch below their's. If they were going to bogus up a report why would they make their closest competitor look so good?
A high dust holding capacity tells you that the filter will takes more dust before it reaches a certain pressure drop, thus it should also be less likely to bypass.
The AMSoil and Mobil1 had much more dust capacity than the other LESS efficient filters.

 

[2533a]

I considered using a Mobil 1 filter on my Toyota 1MZ-FE engine and even bought one. Then I compared the number of holes in the base to my OEM filter and what I saw made me pause. The Mobil 1 filter had about half the number of inlet holes.

Granted I didn't measure the holes on each filter and calculate the area, but using the WAG method I figured my OEM filter would flow better just because there are more holes for the oil to get to the filter media in the first place. Holes on the OEM filter are oval versus round on the Mobil 1 by the way and they're uniformly distributed around the circumference of the base.

The Mobil 1 filter did feel a bit heavier than the OEM filter, but not by much and I don;t know if this difference is due to more filter media or just a thicker case. In my opinion, I figure that any aftermarket filter is a compromise as it has to be suited for multiple applications. Going on faith, I figure that Toyota has optimized their specs for their branded filters for Toyota engines. I returned the Mobil 1 and am sticking with the $3.50 OEM filters. They've served me well on two higher mileage Toyotas to date.

 

[Terry]

Was using a very expensive pure fiberglass media than sacrificed capacity for efficiency,meaning if they had packed more media in the can they would have to open up the efficency to get the same flow rate.
Capacity on those filters never exceeded 12 grams.
Of course this varies with the filter size. THe same M1 might hold 17 grams,Amsoil 21 grams.

That AC filter is no longer available if I'm not mistaken.

The percentage of 8 micron sized particles the Ultra guard Gold filter would still be in the 50% range as a guess.

 

[VaderSS]

You are correct, the UltraGuard is only made for the Vette LS1 application now. What are the ratings for the Mobil 1 at 16 and 35 microns, and the weighted average?

 

[Terry]

Standard efficiency ratings of the MEDIA that can be helpful but not always tell the whole story.
For instance the K&n is 50% at 16 micron.98% at 35 micron.

WAE is derived from the SAE HS806 Test using a 30 w test oil at 180F,3GPM flow rate,1.5 Grms/hr add rate terminated at 8psid.
WAE for the K&n is 89 %.
Impulse fatigue is a M1 advertized high point you may want to compare to K&n at 0-100 psi,150,000 cycles.

 

[Terry]

I'm sorry Vader you are asking for M1 data. I don't have it handy, maybe someone could post it.