How Fram filters are made. Machines do about 98% of the assembly. I couldn't believe that they picked the crappiest filter to do a documentary on.
Just watched on the Science Channel
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So far ..no one has come up with one that appears to be more cheaply made. They are the cheapest constructed filter in their price range to my knowledge. Fram is the only filter I know of that uses cardboard endcaps. All other filters are either metal or composite. Most of them are cheaper at the retail level.
Frams are the poorest built filter at any price. The biggest problem with the end caps is the lack of much between them. In the 3950 number, you get 4 times the media per dollar in an ST.
As for why Fram, if you were going to do a documentary on opperating systems, what would it be, Linux, Mac, or Windows?
As for why Fram, if you were going to do a documentary on opperating systems, what would it be, Linux, Mac, or Windows?
So? I wouldn’t care if the endcaps were made of compressed-green-martian-poop …
Where did you get this data? And secondly, a filter media is 3 dimensional, thickness counts too, so just the fact that a particular filter has more media area doesn’t necessarily mean it will filter better. You would need to actually test the filters. Just because one LOOKS better to someone, doesn’t mean it will PERFORM better.
Some of these online oil filter studies are just plain goofy. I want to see some actual oil filter tests. Maybe NASCAR should start doing this -- rather than run an actual race, the officials can just inspect the various race cars and pick a winner based on how each car just looks … “ … … oh jeepers, that #51 cars looks real fast … we’ll award him first place, and #34 looks pretty fast too, he gets second place …. …”
Drivebelt, you answered your own question.
You don't care if they use cardboard endcaps (I don't either), yet they charge more than others who use a better material. That makes them one of the worst in their price range. If the were about $1.50 less retail, then they would be where they should be priced IMO.
You don't care if they use cardboard endcaps (I don't either), yet they charge more than others who use a better material. That makes them one of the worst in their price range. If the were about $1.50 less retail, then they would be where they should be priced IMO.
What constitutes a “better” material, and why? If a metal endcap performs no better than a cardboard endcap in use -- then what’s the point? Perhaps filter media more readily glues to a cardboard endcap and is less likely to come undone than from a metal surface. Now what constitutes a better material?
My whole point is that a metal endcap may look better, but so what, if the cardboard endcaps serve their function, then it just isn’t an issue in determining what filter performs better.
My whole point is that a metal endcap may look better, but so what, if the cardboard endcaps serve their function, then it just isn’t an issue in determining what filter performs better.
The best test I saw was the Grease oil filter study.
(oilfilterstudy.com, which isn't working right now for some reason).
There they did actual lab testing of filtering and flow. FRAM was decidedly in the middle of the pack.
Add to that the "higher than middle of the pack" prices and the numerous reports of collapses and other problems. As far as I'm concerned, Fram is an adequate filter. Other brands are better, usually priced lower. Obvious choice for me.
(oilfilterstudy.com, which isn't working right now for some reason).
There they did actual lab testing of filtering and flow. FRAM was decidedly in the middle of the pack.
Add to that the "higher than middle of the pack" prices and the numerous reports of collapses and other problems. As far as I'm concerned, Fram is an adequate filter. Other brands are better, usually priced lower. Obvious choice for me.
OK, maybe better isn't the term. I would bet that cardboard caps are cheaper (less expensive) than metal, so the filter should cost less, right?
Champion e-core filters use fiber endcaps and a plastic inner cage, and are consistantly cheaper in most all their brands than Fram.
Do Frams work? Yes, millions of users with minimal problems.
Are they the best or worst? No, probably about middle of the pack.
Do they cost too much? Yes.
The cost of a filter is more than just a couple of endcaps. All engineering is about cost/performance tradeoffs. I would be more concerned how the filter actually performed than if it had cardboard endcaps as long as the endcaps performed the desired function. And I’ve seen no evidence that they don’t.
Hey, if you like Champion, I have no problem with that. But if someone comes in here and tells me it’s a better filter than a Fram, well, let’s see some performance tests that prove it. Just trying to be scientific here, rather just looking at filters and trying to determine which one is best.
That’s an oil filter study, not an oil filter test. It tells me nothing about how the filters actually perform. Not very useful.
In this test the FRAM filter performed very well (for it’s price) … jeepsunlimited
Fram Extra Guard ($2.37)
Napa Gold ($7.85)
Pure One (Puralator) ($6.35)
Considering The Fram performed on par with the 2 much more expensive filters, I’d say that’s looking pretty good.
While this test is old (1995) the FRAM filter did a decent job also … link
Drivebelt, add at least a buck-forty to that old Fram U.S. pricing, now. I agree with you that Frams generally do the job they're supposed to despite being designed down to a production cost point, and have said so numerous times on this site in various forums. (and caught plenty of static for my efforts) But, I also agree with others that their selling price can't be justified. Fram was once a competent filter choice in terms of materials quality and selling price. Once they got their hands on the company, Honeywell's bean counters started effectively making what amounted to engineering decisions. Fram's marketing power isn't the cause. Car owners' blind faith in Fram's past "competent-product-at-a-fair-price" glory is what continues driving their sales. I have no problem with car owners who continue to reach for the familiar orange can. I just happen to be of the opinion that I can get every bit as good and probably better by reaching for the less familiar black can at WalMart for a buck and a half less. Discourageingly, more and more shelf space seems to be given increasingly over to the orange cans of higher priced mediocrity.
(The attention-grabbing industrial orange painted can with the black gripper surface against any engine block coloring does look cool, though!
)
(The attention-grabbing industrial orange painted can with the black gripper surface against any engine block coloring does look cool, though!
Well Drivebelt, you apparently just love Frams, and nothing anyone says will change your mind (I know, I know, you want a test, not a study).
If you want to spend more on a filter than you need to, then fine, get a Fram and you will probably have many trouble free (but more costly) miles.
While I do agree there is sometimes some extreme Fram oil filter bashing on this site, There are equal/better filters out there for the same or less money.
BTW, your JU link looks like several other tests I have seen. Just curious how you call one a test and one a study when they are basically the same?
If you want to spend more on a filter than you need to, then fine, get a Fram and you will probably have many trouble free (but more costly) miles.
While I do agree there is sometimes some extreme Fram oil filter bashing on this site, There are equal/better filters out there for the same or less money.
BTW, your JU link looks like several other tests I have seen. Just curious how you call one a test and one a study when they are basically the same?
I don't relly care how well a fram filter does it's job. I won't support any company that uses the cheapest construction processes and cheapest materials in their product then sells it for a premium price.
Ponder this: Honeywell also makes the accelerometers that go into the JDAMS tailkit assemblies that Being sells the Air Force. They're also in competition to make the next generation guidance sensors for all barnches of the military, called(at least as recently as 2004, when I was there) Common Guidance.
Not that this really has anything to do with oil filters, but I won't use Fram anymore.
Not that this really has anything to do with oil filters, but I won't use Fram anymore.
Kia is an OK car, I mean it gets you down the road doesn't it? A Lexus is a good car too and it does the same thing the Kia does. I just wouldn't want to pay for a Lexus and get a Kia.
Just as I don't want to pay for a Wix and get a Fram. But hey, that's just me.
Just as I don't want to pay for a Wix and get a Fram. But hey, that's just me.
In addition to this much referred to study,
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
I once read an engine oil filter study commissioned by the US Army and carried out jointly by 2 or 3 universities. That study rated the Fram last and basically called it junk.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
I once read an engine oil filter study commissioned by the US Army and carried out jointly by 2 or 3 universities. That study rated the Fram last and basically called it junk.
Well said!
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