Just a thought!

[Bowtieluvr]

A lot of folks enjoy the low prices of Super Tech, Kirkland and other store brands that are manufactured by Warren Oil Products and/or Warren Distribution. Many mention the fact that that they are not paying for marketing for those brands. I’ll give you that but, what about research and development? I have looked at the websites for both companies and see nothing mentioned about research and development, running an engine lab, etc. My question. How do these companies develop their formulations? Do they live off of the work of companies like Exxonmobil, Valvoline and others?

 

[Dogman]

Yes, to the last question, if I were to guess. There wouldn’t be Supertech high mileage or 20k oil without the big boys.

 

[blufeb95]

I'm pretty sure they buy the base stock from XOM, I believe that XOM provides a basic formula for Dexos lubricant to blenders.

 

[CleanSump]

The companies that order the store brands don't have to do any research since they are buying from Warren or Phillips etc. who has already got the products designed or developed. The stores/chains just specify the bottle and labels.

It's all cookie cutter as far as the specs. I want an Dexos 2 5W-30 in quart bottles, 6 packs, with "JohnDoeCo" logos on the bottle.

The oil blenders bid xx dollars if you order ZZ amount. Store picks the bid they like.

 

[4WD]

A lot of folks enjoy the low prices of Super Tech, Kirkland and other store brands that are manufactured by Warren Oil Products and/or Warren Distribution. Many mention the fact that that they are not paying for marketing for those brands. I’ll give you that but, what about research and development? I have looked at the websites for both companies and see nothing mentioned about research and development, running an engine lab, etc. My question. How do these companies develop their formulations? Do they live off of the work of companies like Exxonmobil, Valvoline and others?

They obviously don’t have a reason to spend much on R&D … they buy base stocks from the majors and additives from suppliers who both do R&D … and are on the API committees …
Valvoline is more in between now … they are buying base stock and add packs … but are more active on committees etc … so take part in advancing lubricants. Warren is big enough to get plenty help from sales engineers … so does not need much for R&D … big focus on unit cost while meeting minimum standards …

 

[blufeb95]

I'm pretty sure they buy the base stock from XOM, I believe that XOM provides a basic formula for Dexos lubricant to blenders.

And if you wonder, why?
It's because XOM and SOPUS used to do private label, and then I guess at some point they realized it wasn't that profitable and that they were better off just selling the base oil and additives to blenders and pass them the buck of negotiating with the big box stores and dealing with packaging and logistics of the finished low margin product.

 

[vw7674]

Warren also produced Coastal two-stroke oil, exceeded all the outboard manufacturer's requirements & JASO.
Stuff was the cleanest non-castor pre-mix I found, plus zero deposits on the piston crowns in Kawasaki two-stroke jet ski engines.
Of course that could also be the gasoline with alcohol laced clean tech. : )
Don't see it around any more, too good to keep on the shelves I suppose.

 

[blufeb95]

Warren also produced Coastal two-stroke oil, exceeded all the outboard manufacturer's requirements & JASO.
Stuff was the cleanest non-castor pre-mix I found, plus zero deposits on the piston crowns in Kawasaki two-stroke jet ski engines.
Of course that could also be the gasoline with alcohol laced clean tech. : )
Don't see it around any more, too good to keep on the shelves I suppose.

That's the other Warren.

 

[Dogman]

They obviously don’t have a reason to spend much on R&D … they buy base stocks from the majors and additives from suppliers who both do R&D … and are on the API committees …
Valvoline is more in between now … they are buying base stock and add packs … but are more active on committees etc … so take part in advancing lubricants. Warren is big enough to get plenty help from sales engineers … so does not need much for R&D … big focus on unit cost while meeting minimum standards …

Valvoline states they’re the only motor oil brand with a dedicated engine lab. I wonder if that means, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil don’t but Sopus and Exxon do, sort of a play on words

The First and Only Dedicated Engine Lab

Valvoline is the only motor oil brand with a dedicated engine lab, where we test and prove our products 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Our highly skilled technicians put our products through an exhaustive array of tests to measure oil consumption, deposit build-up, wear, fuel economy and more...

team.valvoline.com

 

[4WD]

Valvoline states they’re the only motor oil brand with a dedicated engine lab. I wonder if that means, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil don’t but Sopus and Exxon do, sort of a play on words

The First and Only Dedicated Engine Lab

Valvoline is the only motor oil brand with a dedicated engine lab, where we test and prove our products 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Our highly skilled technicians put our products through an exhaustive array of tests to measure oil consumption, deposit build-up, wear, fuel economy and more...

team.valvoline.com

Nice play on words … but the big outfits all have to do engine testing in many venues - and as controlled by the engine builders. These tests go on all over the globe …

Much of the testing is obviously more torturous than an average engine and controlled such that it can be done in labs. (ASTM and OEM tests) … API and SAE are in their daily lives too … Wish other industries were this organized …

Valvoline really owns a big chunk of the gear oil and ATF market as well …

 

[wwillson]

How do these companies develop their formulations?

They buy the recipe for base oils and additives for their application from the additives supplier and follow it exactly.

 

[RDY4WAR]

A lot of folks enjoy the low prices of Super Tech, Kirkland and other store brands that are manufactured by Warren Oil Products and/or Warren Distribution. Many mention the fact that that they are not paying for marketing for those brands. I’ll give you that but, what about research and development? I have looked at the websites for both companies and see nothing mentioned about research and development, running an engine lab, etc. My question. How do these companies develop their formulations? Do they live off of the work of companies like Exxonmobil, Valvoline and others?

They develop their formulas by putting together the cheapest base oil blend that'll meet the oil grade, blending in a generic API SP add pack from Lubrizol or another additive company (whoever is cheapest), slap an API starburst on it, and send it out the door. There's no real science to it. Just a cookie cutter recipe.

 

[Bowtieluvr]

Valvoline states they’re the only motor oil brand with a dedicated engine lab. I wonder if that means, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil don’t but Sopus and Exxon do, sort of a play on words

The First and Only Dedicated Engine Lab

Valvoline is the only motor oil brand with a dedicated engine lab, where we test and prove our products 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Our highly skilled technicians put our products through an exhaustive array of tests to measure oil consumption, deposit build-up, wear, fuel economy and more...

team.valvoline.com

It is a play on words but, with the exception of ExxonMobil, I’m not sure if the other companies have their own engine labs. ExxonMobil added an engine lab to their Clinton NJ research facility a few years ago.

 

[kschachn]

And you are paying for marketing with Walmart. They have a huge advertising budget.

 

[Bowtieluvr]

And you are paying for marketing with Walmart. They have a huge advertising budget.

Right, it’s just that the cost is spread across a much larger array of products.

 

[CleanSump]

They don't even have to develop anything. The add pack is pre-developed to the API spec. The blender just buys it from the add pack company. Don't you guys read BITOG? Sheesh.

 

[Bowtieluvr]

They don't even have to develop anything. The add pack is pre-developed to the API spec. The blender just buys it from the add pack company. Don't you guys read BITOG? Sheesh.

Some of the major additive companies are owned by the major oil companies. I don’t think the additive companies develop the packages without the collaboration of the motor oil makers. A few years ago Lubrizol and Valvoline were recognized for an additive package that they developed jointly. As stated previously, ExxonMobil has an engine lab and a small blending plant at their Clinton NJ research center. Valvoline has operated their own engine lab for years. Why would they need those facilities if they just use off-the-shelf packages developed solely by the additive companies?

 

[OVERKILL]

Some of the major additive companies are owned by the major oil companies. I don’t think the additive companies develop the packages without the collaboration of the motor oil makers. A few years ago Lubrizol and Valvoline were recognized for an additive package that they developed jointly. As stated previously, ExxonMobil has an engine lab and a small blending plant at their Clinton NJ research center. Valvoline has operated their own engine lab for years. Why would they need those facilities if they just use off-the-shelf packages developed solely by the additive companies?

I think he was referring to the companies that just do blending (not Valvoline, Mobil, SOPUS...etc).

XOM and SOPUS co-own Infineum, but XOM also owns XOM Chemical, which produces a huge slate of base stocks.

 

[CleanSump]

Some of the major additive companies are owned by the major oil companies. I don’t think the additive companies develop the packages without the collaboration of the motor oil makers. A few years ago Lubrizol and Valvoline were recognized for an additive package that they developed jointly. As stated previously, ExxonMobil has an engine lab and a small blending plant at their Clinton NJ research center. Valvoline has operated their own engine lab for years. Why would they need those facilities if they just use off-the-shelf packages developed solely by the additive companies?

Right. I was just referring to companies like Walmart and Costco. They don't need any labs etc, they just contract out to the suppliers.

 

[2EHA]

their current oils use petrocanada HVI and VHVI (low rent Group III) and the DI package from somebody, probably lubrizol as stated above. of course they pay full price for the stuff mobil or shell gets cheap and still turn a good profit.

the majors make much more money on their finished product than small ball golf ball players like warren.