Junk entire car over Scratched Battery ?

Back to the original point, an incredibly powerful structural battery encased in a hard thermal compound won’t be repairable or replaceable by any technology, anywhere, at any time. When it fails, for any reason, the car is scrap.

we have never seen this before. And people may not like the idea. It certainly would make a good ad campaign for the competition
 
It is incredibly valid to not trust the safety of the battery after an event. Unfortunate but true.

BMS boards could go bad, harnesses could have shorts, internal damage to cells could exist, thermal paths could be compromised, dielectric standoffs could be reduced.

That said, if designed and qualified to an aggressive shock and vibration standard, it’s likely that they would survive a lot.
 
JHZR2 said:
It is incredibly valid to not trust the safety of the battery after an event. Unfortunate but true.

BMS boards could go bad, harnesses could have shorts, internal damage to cells could exist, thermal paths could be compromised, dielectric standoffs could be reduced.

That said, if designed and qualified to an aggressive shock and vibration standard, it’s likely that they would survive a lot.
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Wow. Sometimes I learn something. I learned something today.
 
Trav said:
I am quite sure the junkyard operators and insurance companies know exactly how many claims are being paid and and how many batteries are being recycled. It seems any "facts" that go against the EV agenda will never be good enough for you and the disciples.
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Only single digit % of plastic trash are being recycled...
Batteries? Wet dream...
 
Barkleymut said:
I know that I am in the minority, but I hate the thought of owning anything that I cannot fix with my own 2 hands.

I would happily drive an electric car, they are fast as lightning and I wouldn't mind plugging it in every night. But if something goes wrong .... well I am not a battery expert.
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Is this state of non-repairability not also true of ICE powered vehicles these days? Attempting to repair modern gasoline powered vehicles with all of their software and programming is light years away from the days of me, watching my grandfather (A lifelong certified GM mechanic) work on cars without any OBD equipment. I remember watching him with mystified fascination as he tilted his head to listen to the engine after he had turned the carburetor. You certainly cannot do this with a modern EV , But nor can you do so, with just about any modern carbon fuel vehicle either. While I enjoy tinkering on my vintage, carbureted, hobby cars, I want the option to purchase, newer, high tech cars in the future, including EV’s that people like us who are interested in DIY can work on. I think all things, mechanical, whether they be EV’s, ICE’s, or any consumer product that we purchase, should be repairable by both independent shops, as well as individuals who might have the set up and the tools to do so. Engineers know how to design things to be more friendly to Service, or less friendly to Service, and I don’t think they should get away with being able to blame it on “well, that’s just high-tech now“. I don’t think that, in the past, you needed someone from Tesla to fly into town to assist with the engineering repairs of a golf cart! Question is, are we allowed access to have the tools?
 
LowMilesLesabre said:
Is this state of non-repairability not also true of ICE powered vehicles these days? Attempting to repair modern gasoline powered vehicles with all of their software and programming is light years away from the days of me, watching my grandfather (A lifelong certified GM mechanic) work on cars without any OBD equipment. I remember watching him with mystified fascination as he tilted his head to listen to the engine after he had turned the carburetor. You certainly cannot do this with a modern EV , But nor can you do so, with just about any modern carbon fuel vehicle either. While I enjoy tinkering on my vintage, carbureted, hobby cars, I want the option to purchase, newer, high tech cars in the future, including EV’s that people like us who are interested in DIY can work on. I think all things, mechanical, whether they be EV’s, ICE’s, or any consumer product that we purchase, should be repairable by both independent shops, as well as individuals who might have the set up and the tools to do so. Engineers know how to design things to be more friendly to Service, or less friendly to Service, and I don’t think they should get away with being able to blame it on “well, that’s just high-tech now“. I don’t think that, in the past, you needed someone from Tesla to fly into town to assist with the engineering repairs of a golf cart! Question is, are we allowed access to have the tools?
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I think that’s a thing that will come with time. There’s a few shops that have popped up that can do battery repairs, but a lot of mom and pop mechanics have dried up over the years anyway. It likely will become a bit more common as the cars gain adoption. The fact that these cars likely have 100k or more warranties will keep most of it to dealer repairs for most until they get even older. With my VW if something pops up I just take it to the dealer still being under warranty too. Probably out of warranty as well. Not because I wouldn’t want to work on it, but I really don’t have much time these days to play around in the garage turning wrenches unless it’s a very quick fix.
 
sk_pete said:
Only single digit % of plastic trash are being recycled...
Batteries? Wet dream...
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I never understand the reason to recycle functional but reduced range / capacity battery. You should always try to swap old batteries out and replace them with scrap battery from newer junk cars. If the battery is damaged then you should recycle for sure. Reuse them in non car application? Sure if you have enough volume and standardization so they don't need to wait for a matching 50 set from across the world to build one working unit, I think we are still early and things are changing very fast, but in 10 years I think all manufacturers would know what standard they want to follow.
 
PandaBear said:
I never understand the reason to recycle functional but reduced range / capacity battery. You should always try to swap old batteries out and replace them with scrap battery from newer junk cars. If the battery is damaged then you should recycle for sure. Reuse them in non car application? Sure if you have enough volume and standardization so they don't need to wait for a matching 50 set from across the world to build one working unit, I think we are still early and things are changing very fast, but in 10 years I think all manufacturers would know what standard they want to follow.
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There are a number of entrepreneurs doing just that. An EV battery with 50% of it’s original capacity is still an excellent home energy storage device.
 
demarpaint said:
Two things I do know for sure. 1. No EV has made it that long [35+ years in my case], and 2. an ICE "wear item" battery is still cheaper than an EV "wear item" battery. ;) Bottom line all we can do with an EV is speculate on its longevity and long term dependability. Millions of ICE vehicles have lasted as long as my old 88 E-150 or longer.
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9 years 5 months later my original Tesla battery still has 93% of its original capacity. By all reports the first degradation occurs the fastest. So it appears I’m on my way to 25 years.
 
Cujet said:
Back to the original point, an incredibly powerful structural battery encased in a hard thermal compound won’t be repairable or replaceable by any technology, anywhere, at any time. When it fails, for any reason, the car is scrap.

we have never seen this before. And people may not like the idea. It certainly would make a good ad campaign for the competition
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Yeah, “we’ve seen this before.” Only that potted electronics are well known, including solvents to dissolve the potting compound to provide access to repair.
 
JHZR2 said:
That said, if designed and qualified to an aggressive shock and vibration standard, it’s likely that they would survive a lot.
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the automotive industry is still using the same IPxx standards as the electronics industry for dirt/water intrusion. There are SAE/CE specs for EV charging, wiring, etc but none that covers outside of how the packs and ECMs are built to survive the environment.
 
nthach said:
the automotive industry is still using the same IPxx standards as the electronics industry for dirt/water intrusion. There are SAE/CE specs for EV charging, wiring, etc but none that covers outside of how the packs and ECMs are built to survive the environment.
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IP has to do with dirt and moisture ingress. Both are irrelevant to actual motion and impact based shock and vibration.

Elements of MIL-STD-810, 901D, and 167 may be more like it, though possibly overkill in many areas too.
 
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