Junctions made with lineman's pliers

[JHZR2]

I've been under the impression that the rich way to make junctions of romex in a junction box is to strip wires long, take Lineman's pliers twist the wires together, snip the end and then hold them together with a wire nut.

Thing is, with 12ga wire in small (30-40 cu in or less) boxes, with wires coming in from all sides, I can't get it as neat as I'd like. At some point along the length, it is never all straight and aligned.

Also, I'm always afraid I've twisted too much.

Much of this is likely nothing, especially since it is hid at the end of the day, but instill like to do nice work.

Any tips? Im usually putting four 12 ga romex in a junction box.

Also, the pliers chew up the wire a bit. Usually I cut that section off. But if the wire is rough from the plier jaw, does it much matter electrically, especially under load?

Thanks!

 

[Donald]

Some people twist the wire nut with a pair of lineman's pliers.

Are you sure you are not overloading the box? They sell boxes that are deep and or covers that are for a 4" box but only allow one normal outlet or switch to be attached.

Whatever way you do it pull things after to make sure a wire cannot pull out, nor can the whole wire nut pull off.

 

[JHZR2]

I always do the calculation and the boxes aren't overloaded. When I can, I use bigger boxes too.

I thought you twist the wires and then nut them. Not hard to twist a wire nut on hard, but it is tough to twist wires together at 12ga size.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

I give them a twist with pliers and cap them off with the wire nut. I don't see the point in worrying about the marks that the pliers leave, since a tight wire nut will leave similar marks.

While it's nice to be neat with the wiring, there's a point where you overthink it. As long as things are reasonably clean in the box I'd close it up and be done rather than waste time over something that doesn't make much difference.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I thought you twist the wires and then nut them. Not hard to twist a wire nut on hard, but it is tough to twist wires together at 12ga size.


It is fascinating (to me) that professional electricians do not agree on the idea of pre twisting wire nuts (Google it).

Ideal Twister nuts are designed for, and state on the package not to pre twist the wires. If fact, many wire nut packages say that. Many old timers always pre twist by habit. Many others do not. The practice varies by region also. Some say you would be fired if not pre twisting while others say that you would be laughed at if you pre twist.

 

[yonyon]

It's because it doesn't matter for this sort of wiring. One way or another the nut is going to bite in and clamp it all down anyway. Twisting can be good or bad depending on the grip you use to twist the nut on, but it's hard to screw up whichever way you go.

Now, get into finely stranded wire and it's a different story. Twist and snip before putting that nut on.

 

[doitmyself]

I agree with the part that it must not matter if code allows either way. But, the arguments go on ad nauseum, similar to the crimp vs. solder battles. With all the codes and professionalism that the trades (unions) market, a "by the book" guy like me finds this lack of agreement fascinating.

On the pro electrician forums I visit on occasion, if they do pre twist the wires, it's always on solid wire and rarely, if ever, on stranded wire. Who am I to argue with the internet "facts"

.

 

[JHZR2]

If it were just two wires coming together I wouldnt think much about twisting... But with four, I wanted the extra surety that one isnt going to pop out of the wirenut during some thermal cycle or high load or something... Probably ovrthinking it...

But its also just easier to get all the wires together if they are at least twisted a few times.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself

Ideal Twister nuts are designed for, and state on the package not to pre twist the wires. If fact, many wire nut packages say that.


That's exactly right. If you have to twist the wires with pliers before putting the wire nut on, then you're using
the wrong size wire nut. I like to use the tan colored Ideal wire nuts - they'll take up to (3) 10 gage wires.
And besides, if you're using the correct size wire nut, the wire nut will twist the wires for you.

Click Here

 

[Donald]

If the power is on, it seems a little safer to let the wire nut do the twisting. That may be an oxymoron, "safer and power-on".

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: doitmyself

Ideal Twister nuts are designed for, and state on the package not to pre twist the wires. If fact, many wire nut packages say that.


That's exactly right. If you have to twist the wires with pliers before putting the wire nut on, then you're using
the wrong size wire nut. I like to use the tan colored Ideal wire nuts - they'll take up to (3) 10 gage wires.
And besides, if you're using the correct size wire nut, the wire nut will twist the wires for you.

Click Here

Well my issue was that it is easier, and loks cleaner, if the wires, which all kind of are of different lengths and coming in from diferent directions, are bundled via a few twists to get them cleamly coupled together with a lot more contact. The wire nut then just holds them together.

Also helps for structure of the wire group when I need to bend it back up into the junction box to cap the box.

Maybe Im doing the whole thing wrong...

I like a good length of wire in the box to work with.

 

[tom slick]

I often twist first if it is a bundle of wires to keep them together or if I'm using stranded wire.

 

[mechtech2]

With household AC power, just use a proper sized nut and srew it on with no pre twisting.

 

[Samilcar]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
If you have to twist the wires with pliers before putting the wire nut on, then you're using
the wrong size wire nut... if you're using the correct size wire nut, the wire nut will twist the wires for you.


This has always been my way of thinking as well.