Jump starter not starting newer AGM equipped cars

[eljefino]

I suspect you're having issues getting enough current through the alligator clip interface. They really are garbage. Of course you want to get a surface charge on the victim battery, that's why when we do "traditional" jump starts we idle the donor car with the cables hooked up for a few minutes. A 14.5 V source > a 12.3 V one for this.

There has to be an actual "professional" answer for this, which sucks to find, because the market is saturated with plastic garbage with the aforementioned tiny batteries inside. IMO they should have a "7 cell" battery with special charger and nominal 14V rating.

That Clore with 425 cranking amps probably has 3xx cold cranking amps, so it's the same as a battery for a honda fit. I knew a guy who worked at an auto auction; their jump rig was a hand cart with two full size batteries wired in parallel with beefy cables. IMO you should come up with a group 24 (or whatever) battery with built in handle, some 6 gauge jumper cables, and universal terminals. Cut back to around three feet of cable, fit up the terminals, and store the clips connected to a piece of leather or whatever so they don't short. Get cables with insulated alligator clips, quality ones, that fit terminals nicely and have good spring to them.

 

[wag123]

Jump pack is kept in a heated cab and always plugged in to charge when not in use. The pack is maybe 2-3 years old. I’ve gone though 3 in the last month. Boss just swaps one out for another

After buying and using several different brands without success, for many years I used a Booster PAC ES5000 many times daily and it never let me down (until the battery eventually gave up), even on dual battery diesels. On a gel cell jump box that is used extensively, about 3 years is all you are going to get out of it.

 

[zzyzzx]

I like the big battery idea, it just is too heavy to carry.

Put it on wheels.

 

[avacado11]

I say this in the nicest, meaningful, and respectful way. If your line of work is to jump start vehicles all day, electrical is not your forte, and have no clue how batteries are rated, why not take it upon yourself to spend 15 minutes a day to educate yourself? Enroll in a community college? It will be safer for you, the people's cars you jump, and the vehicles themselves. It will make you a better employee and may lead to advancement. You can take pride in being the most knowledgeable person in the room on the subject matter.

I've had two batteries blow up in my face. Not fun.

It’s not that I don’t know how automotive electrical systems work. I know enough in a practical sense at-least, but when it comes to toying around with the numbers - crank amps, peak amps, and overall trying to set up on a completely dead battery is what I’m not too familiar with. What is enough, what isn’t enough etc.

 

[avacado11]

I suspect you're having issues getting enough current through the alligator clip interface. They really are garbage. Of course you want to get a surface charge on the victim battery, that's why when we do "traditional" jump starts we idle the donor car with the cables hooked up for a few minutes. A 14.5 V source > a 12.3 V one for this.

There has to be an actual "professional" answer for this, which sucks to find, because the market is saturated with plastic garbage with the aforementioned tiny batteries inside. IMO they should have a "7 cell" battery with special charger and nominal 14V rating.

That Clore with 425 cranking amps probably has 3xx cold cranking amps, so it's the same as a battery for a honda fit. I knew a guy who worked at an auto auction; their jump rig was a hand cart with two full size batteries wired in parallel with beefy cables. IMO you should come up with a group 24 (or whatever) battery with built in handle, some 6 gauge jumper cables, and universal terminals. Cut back to around three feet of cable, fit up the terminals, and store the clips connected to a piece of leather or whatever so they don't short. Get cables with insulated alligator clips, quality ones, that fit terminals nicely and have good spring to them.

I would definitely rig up something if I could but the work truck doesn’t have the space to carry it.

The thing is my truck carries new batteries in it, I can always sell the person a new one as a last resort *BUT* without it firing up I don’t want to assume it’s the battery. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes the cars just have a bad starter or some other electrical issue and the battery gets drained down with attempts to start it before I get there. Granted the battery would probably test out fine in that case maybe just showing low voltage, but there’s also people who can’t afford a new $200 battery and just want a jump start so they can get home.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Put it on wheels.

I saw one guy with that. One of those folding collapsible hand carts. Optima D31 yellow top and some custom cables from welding shop with heavy duty clamps. He had a quick connect clamp and a battery switch on it also.

 

[SubLGT]

Ask your boss to buy this 40lb twin-battery jump starter, with 850 "cranking amps".

JNC1224 3400 Peak Amp 12/24V Jump Starter - Clore Automotive

When you reach for your jump starter, it has to work — especially if you are a pro. If you need powerful, multi-volt jump starting in a portable unit, look no further than the JNC1224 from Clore Automotive. With an easy change between voltage settings, this Jump-N-Carry starter packs a...

cloreautomotive.com

 

[SubLGT]

......I have no clue how cranking amps and peak amps come into play with jump starting completely dead batteries.

Peak amps is a useless, fantasy specification. It is favored by marketing departments because the numbers look very impressive.

 

[14Accent]

Schumacher jump pack

Get yourself something like this. This is what we use at John Deere to get dead tractors started. I just used ours today to boost an 8R 410 that wouldn't even click. The tractors operate on 12v and run dual batteries, just FYI.

 

[SubLGT]

The Clore JNC660 uses a Gel Cell lead/acid battery.
View attachment 200990

Clore uses a 22Ah AGM battery in the JNC660. A gel battery is not suitable for a jump pack. They are best for low current operation, and can be very deeply discharged (deeper than AGM) without harm.

 

[SubLGT]

The Clore product you mention seems to indicate whether a battery can be jumped or not. Is that feature working?

I own a Clore JNC660. There is no feature to prevent it from starting a car with a dead battery.

 

[SubLGT]

In my line of work I jump start cars all day long.

Employer supplied me with a Clore JNC660(425amp crank/1700 peak) which would start just about anything except maybe a completely dead AGM. with these cold snaps I come across dead AGMs a lot more, even some lead acids that I can’t start with the JNC660......

Do these batteries have crusty, corroded terminals? Try wiggling the clamp once it is connected, to break through the insulating layer of crust. Also check the screw that connects the cable to the clamp. Is it still tight?

Test the battery inside the JNC660:

After fully charging the battery (see “Recharging” section), apply a 100 amp load to the unit for a period of 6 seconds, while monitoring the battery voltage. The battery is good if the voltage is 9.5 Vdc or higher.

 

[JonnyRingvald]

Yes the issue is probably the protective circuitry inside the lithium jump starters refusing to engage on a fully dead battery.

Almost all of the handheld lead acid jump packs have the same 18 AH battery inside. The amp ratings are hype. You might do better carrying a fully charged full size AGM and a good set of jumper cables. Also if this is a garage full of cars that the same company owns, consider hoping that the car next to the dead one can start and be used to supply a jump start.

One I bought recently has some sort of override feature which likely offsets what you're explaining. Without having the manual onhand at the moment they describe/name it as something along the line as being a forced start.

 

[JonnyRingvald]

I would definitely rig up something if I could but the work truck doesn’t have the space to carry it.

The thing is my truck carries new batteries in it, I can always sell the person a new one as a last resort *BUT* without it firing up I don’t want to assume it’s the battery. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes the cars just have a bad starter or some other electrical issue and the battery gets drained down with attempts to start it before I get there. Granted the battery would probably test out fine in that case maybe just showing low voltage, but there’s also people who can’t afford a new $200 battery and just want a jump start so they can get home.

Good line of work to be in apparently, just somewhat surprised so many car owners let things get to this point. No doubt batteries can take a dump whenever and of course weather, etc. plays a part in that. Between dying batteries and the ridiculous amount of cars I see stranded with tire issues is mind boggling at times. A bit of preventive maintenance can go a LONG way. Guess the public needs more of a BITOG OCD mindset!

 

[SC Maintenance]

Good line of work to be in apparently, just somewhat surprised so many car owners let things get to this point. No doubt batteries can take a dump whenever and of course weather, etc. plays a part in that. Between dying batteries and the ridiculous amount of cars I see stranded with tire issues is mind boggling at times. A bit of preventive maintenance can go a LONG way. Guess the public needs more of a BITOG OCD mindset!

Because most people take there car to the dealer, and they get quoted $1000 headlight fluid, a wallet flush, and possibly a battery which is the only legitimate need. So they decline the whole thing and drive on. I blame the "professionals" - because my last trip to Toyota dealer with my wife's under warranty car, this is exactly what they tried on me.

 

[SHOZ]

Peak amps is a useless, fantasy specification. It is favored by marketing departments because the numbers look very impressive.

Where I worked we made submarine batteries. They were single cells grouped together, usually for 240V or so. But each cell was a typical lead acid 2v nominal. One test they came up with on the Seawolf cell was to short one out. These were about 1500A for 8hr rated. A dead short would be tremendous surge.

So they got a solid copper bar about 3" square and long enough to reach both +- terminals. Rigged a means to drop it on the terminals to short it out remotely. We all stood back and hit the switch and nothing, not hardly even a spark. It did indeed short it out but no catastrophic melting failure. Didn't even get the copper bar hot.

 

[Chris142]

It’s not that I don’t know how automotive electrical systems work. I know enough in a practical sense at-least, but when it comes to toying around with the numbers - crank amps, peak amps, and overall trying to set up on a completely dead battery is what I’m not too familiar with. What is enough, what isn’t enough etc.

The more cca you have the better your chances of starting the dead car.

 

[JonnyRingvald]

Because most people take there car to the dealer, and they get quoted $1000 headlight fluid, a wallet flush, and possibly a battery which is the only legitimate need. So they decline the whole thing and drive on. I blame the "professionals" - because my last trip to Toyota dealer with my wife's under warranty car, this is exactly what they tried on me.

For the past 10+ yrs I've gone to the dealership 95% of the time. I tell them what I want to be done then mention what I've done recently, what I plan to do next, have mileage/details in a note folder in my phone. The response is deer in the headlights then an 'OK then, we will take care of just that!'

Same sort of thing when my daughter wanted an oil change at the local quick stop type place. Young 'tech' comes out and says they recommend a trans fluid exchange and then shows us a towel with dirty fluid on it. I simply say 'that's awesome, but being that the car has a sealed design CVT with no dipstick where did you obtain that sample?'... again, that deer in the headlights stare with something like a 'duh OK then'... Of course they are pushed to upsell on anything possible, but they should know exactly what they try to upsell and when it's actually a needed service, not just based on time/mileage.

 

[Donald]

You want a jump pack you can barely lift.

 

[Oil Changer]

Good line of work to be in apparently, just somewhat surprised so many car owners let things get to this point. No doubt batteries can take a dump whenever and of course weather, etc. plays a part in that. Between dying batteries and the ridiculous amount of cars I see stranded with tire issues is mind boggling at times. A bit of preventive maintenance can go a LONG way. Guess the public needs more of a BITOG OCD mindset!

My guess is that he works at an airport.