John Deere Cool-Gard II

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Coolant_Man

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I needed to top off a vehicle I had converted to John Deere Cool-Gard (G-05) over a year ago so I stopped at a local John Deere dealer to get some. I saw they now have Cool-Gard II out.

It appears to be chemically identical to the original Cool-Gard. Here are the original Cool-Gard ingredients...
  • Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1
  • Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6
  • Sodium Tetraborate 12179-04-3
  • Pentahydrate Inhibitor (No number)
  • 5 yr./5000 hr.
The new John Deere Cool-Gard II...
  • Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1
  • Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6
  • Sodium Tetraborate Pentahydrate Inhibitor 12179-04-3 (yes it is now listed as one ingredient)
  • 6 yr./6000 hr.
The colors are different. Original Cool-Gard is a nice green color. Cool-Gard II is more of an amber/green color. I wish they had kept to color the same.

Cool-Gard II is compatible with original Cool-Gard. Both contain Bitrex to keep the pets and kids from drinking it.

Other than color and longer service life, I am not sure what else changed especially in regards to getting longer service life out of it since both are chemically identical. Regardless, I still drain the radiator and overflow tank and refill both every couple of years.

http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/coolants/coolants_competitive_comparisons.html
 
I noticed in your link that Coolgard II is nitrite-free... whereas I know that the old Coolgard had nitrites. Beyond that, I have no idea what the differences are.
 
The problem with msds and/or ingredient lists is that they seldom show everything. You state "It appears to be chemically identical to the original Cool-Gard."

Take a look at this sales brochure: http://www.landmarkimp.com/images/homepage/coolgard.pdf

It states: "we have replaced the nitrite additive with three organic elements". The brochure also shows that this formula change seems to be aimed at the new,hotter running EGR engines much like the CJ oil is. They also claim it is SUPERIOR for all other coolant systems.

John Deere seems to provide great maintenance products under their name and I imagine this is no exception. But, they often skew their "test results" (table) by comparing them to obsolete and/or products not suitable for the application.

- I wonder if they will phase out the regular Cool gard?
- If this costs more, I would think the regular stuff is still awesome for pre EGR engines.
- I wonder how this formula falls out regarding formulation....still G05??
- Even though it says its back compatible, I wonder if a complete flush should be performed if switching over.
- 6 years/6,000 hours is different than the manual's interval and must require monitoring and SCA additions to achieve?????
 
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Thanks for the info guys. This year is the year I need to drain the radiators and overflow tanks and refill them. I will just top off with Cool-Gard II instead of the original Cool-Gard. Mixed correctly with distilled water of course.

The John Deere dealership I went to still had plenty of original Cool-Gard and the prices were the same between it and Cool-Gard II. I think it was $15.99 for a gallon of concentrate and $25 for 2 1/2 gallon pre-diluted.
 
I am having an interesting conversation with a John Deere chemist. I will not share it without permission which I will request.
 
I have been having an interesting e-mail conversation with a John Deere chemical engineer. I was happy this chemical engineer had the time to chat with me through e-mail.

In regards to John Deere Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II...
  • John Deere Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II are NOT G-05. They are both Hybrid Organic Additive Technology (HOAT) coolants as G-05 is, but Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II are not G-05. G-05 is not formulated to protect against cylinder liner cavitation erosion and pitting, and does not pass the ASTM D7583 John Deere Cylinder Liner Cavitation Erosion Test.
  • John Deere Cool-Gard uses a low dose of silicate for aluminum protection. Sodium nitrite and one type of organic additive technology (OAT) is used for cast iron water pump impeller cavitation protection, and to protect the replaceable cast iron cylinder liners from hard water deposits, pitting, erosion, and cavitation.
  • Cool-Gard uses sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite. It also uses 1 OAT.
  • John Deere Cool-Gard II uses sodium nitrate, but no longer uses sodium nitrite. Sodium nitrite has been banned in coolant in certain countries. It also uses the same OAT that Cool-Gard uses but also uses 2 additional OATs. This tri-OAT formulation provides the same level of cavitation protection as did the original Cool-Gard formulation, but does not need the addition of Coolant Extender or SCA nearly as often. It also has been reformulated to meet the challenges of the upcoming Interim Tier 4 diesel emission reduction technology strategies as well as the future Final Tier 4 diesel emission reduction technology strategies. Both will involve cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (cooled EGR), with the engine coolant being the heat exchange fluid in the EGR cooler. The overall bulk coolant temperature will rise as much as 10°C to 15°C when these technologies are implemented.
  • Ethylene Glycol is sweet tasting. EG is also very poisonous to humans and animals. For this reason a bittering agent, to make the coolant extremely bitter to the taste, is added to the formula. This agent, called Bitrex®, is required in California and Oregon, but we add it to all packaged products on a world-wide basis.
  • Distilled water (or deionized/demineralized water) is recommended instead of tap or well water. This insures no mineral deposits form.
  • John Deere supplies test strips to test its coolant. If the pH tests below 7.0 (neutral), the coolant has turned acidic and needs to be drained out, the cooling system flushed and new coolant installed.

I use John Deere Cool-Gard in numerous gasoline engine cooling systems in GMs, Fords, and Chryslers. On that subject...

"And as you have noted by your own experience, John Deere Cool-Gard, and now John Deere Cool-Gard II, works great in all engines, from heavy duty diesels all the way down to gasoline engines in cars and trucks. In fact, Deere is now using Cool-Gard II as factory-fill in our water-cooled lawn and garden and Turf Care equipment."

In regards to the Asians' use a phosphates...

"What the Asians are likely concerned about is the use of Supplemental Coolant Additives, or SCA for short. These SCAs are meant to replace the additives that deplete over time and need to be replenished in order to continue to protect against corrosion and cavitation. The glycol itself does not wear out - it only becomes diluted with water or over-concentrated, and therefore the freeze point can be adjusted by the addition of either water or coolant concentrate. To determine the condition of the coolant, the coolant must be tested. This can be done in two ways - by the use of litmus strip-like test strips, or by taking a sample of the coolant and mailing it to an authorized laboratory for an in-depth chemical analysis. The Asians' concern is that the continued use of SCAs without first testing the coolant to see if SCA addition is warranted could lead to overconcentration of silicate, with in turn could lead to the formation of a gel structure in the coolant as the fluid cools after use. This silicate gel is very stable and the only way to remove it is to use a high pressure power wash to flush out the cooling system."

On the subject of 2-EHA OATS...

"Regarding DEX-COOL, you are correct in that it is an OAT - type coolant using 2-Ethyl-Hexanoic Acid (2-EHA) as the OAT in its formulation. There was much controversy about ten or so years ago regarding seal hardening and cracking caused by 2-EHA. Cummins Engine Company and Texaco Chemical, now owned by Chevron, were two that particularly had issues with each other, but reached some sort of accommodation on the issue. You may want to do some Internet searches on the matter. For our part, we do not use 2-EHA in or formulation of either the former Cool-Gard or the current Cool-Gard II. The OAT used in Cool-Gard and now in Cool-Gard II, along with the two additional OAT's in Cool-Gard II, are unique and proprietary to Deere, and are not used by anyone else. That makes Cool-Gard II a truly unique and one-of-a-kind formulation."

I am still astounded OAT coolant manufacturers continue to use 2-EHA.

"As a side note, 2-EHA is a co-product or by-product of other chemical manufacturing processes. By being a by-product, that makes it a lower valued commodity and therefore a lower cost input for those coolant producers that choose to use it. However, it does have its drawbacks, as I have noted. That is not to say that all OATs possess the same properties. We originally formulated Cool-Gard with a different OAT that did not negatively affect seals, and Cool-Gard II is formulated with that same OAT plus two more OATs that has been tested and proven to not negatively affect six (6) typical elastomer seal materials, including HNBR, NBR-1, VMQ-1, FKM-1, EPM and EPDM. This testing was performed according to the Detroit Diesel 93K217 Specification. It should be noted that some coolants formulated with 2-EHA have experienced incompatibility with silicone seal material (FKM-1)."
 
Thanks Coolant_Man. Can we at least now agree that OAT is not necessarily a bad thing and doesn't necessarily require an inorganic, factory recommendations notwithstanding? And that PGL might be a good anti-freeze, being a non-2EHA formula and despite not being an HOAT?

Quote:
In regards to the Asians' use a phosphates...

"What the Asians are likely concerned about is the use of Supplemental Coolant Additives, or SCA for short. These SCAs are meant to replace the additives that deplete over time and need to be replenished in order to continue to protect against corrosion and cavitation. The glycol itself does not wear out - it only becomes diluted with water or over-concentrated, and therefore the freeze point can be adjusted by the addition of either water or coolant concentrate. To determine the condition of the coolant, the coolant must be tested. This can be done in two ways - by the use of litmus strip-like test strips, or by taking a sample of the coolant and mailing it to an authorized laboratory for an in-depth chemical analysis. The Asians' concern is that the continued use of SCAs without first testing the coolant to see if SCA addition is warranted could lead to overconcentration of silicate, with in turn could lead to the formation of a gel structure in the coolant as the fluid cools after use. This silicate gel is very stable and the only way to remove it is to use a high pressure power wash to flush out the cooling system."



I hope this can lay to rest the speculation that the Asians use a phosphated OAT for reasons other than it was an absolute necessity to add in some inorganic to a OAT. And also that maybe silicates aren't an end-all-be-all and that several manufactures don't want any silicate. Unless I missed something although it was characterized as a HOAT there was no mention of silicates in Cool Guard II like in the former Cool Guard.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Unless I missed something although it was characterized as a HOAT there was no mention of silicates in Cool Guard II like in the former Cool Guard.

It was my fault. My copy/paste skills get over tested sometimes, lol. I have contacted a mod to make a correction.
 
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Unless I missed something although it was characterized as a HOAT there was no mention of silicates in Cool Guard II like in the former Cool Guard.

It was my fault. My copy/paste skills get over tested sometimes, lol. I have contacted a mod to make a correction.


OK figures Cool Guard II still has the low silicate, right?
 
OK your next task if you choose to accept it is to find out who if anyone is using the PGL formula. Peak claims they are an OEM supplier to some heavy duty manufacture and perhaps the OEM is the patent holder similar to how John Deere has their own coolant. It might be the same formula as Final Charge. Of course some HD OEMs use a dexcool also, so the topic might not be of interest to you.
 
Kudos to you, Coolant_Man for some in-depth investigation. The G05 statement from JD is shocking.

I am in denial that "Coolgard is not G05" because it has been posted all over the internet that JD is G05 and the Valvolene site states "meets or exceeds performance requirements of following antifreeze specifications......Deere & Company approved".

Also contradictory to your/his info: Zerex says that G05 is "fully formulated to ...protect diesel cylinder liners from cavitation".

It's not impossible that the JD Tech. is putting a bit of "spin" on his information also....always the skeptic, I am.

- did he mention if the regular Coolgard will be phased out?

- In spite of compatibility claims, I wonder if it is best to do a complete flush and replacement?

- I am also not convinced the new coolant is better, maybe just different to meet global concerns and EGR needs of NEW engines.

Thanks again. This kind of information re-enforces MY comfort level of staying with OEM recommendations, not that other stuff doesn't work. Having a Dexcool vehicle would be a dilemma for me.
 
I agree doitmyself, I purposely tried to not be a negative nancy or critical of the info coolant_man obtained from a John Deere expert. Since the info provided didn't bash any other coolants, I didn't have much reason to be critical. But I agree that the J_D guy's info may not be completely unbiased and the last word or gospil on the topic. I was always under the impression that G-05 was formulated with diesels in mind since it's a European formula and they use a lot of diesels, and also because G-05 has nitrite/nitrates and borate. What were they for really if not to address the diesel issue? I think Cool Guard !! could be better because they had 2 more OAT.
 
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I've used Cool-Gard and/or G05 in all my vehicles for years (two GM v6 engines and an old ford truck). No coolant related problems to report.
 
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
I needed to top off a vehicle I had converted to John Deere Cool-Gard (G-05) over a year ago so I stopped at a local John Deere dealer to get some. I saw they now have Cool-Gard II out.

It appears to be chemically identical to the original Cool-Gard. Here are the original Cool-Gard ingredients...
  • Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1
  • Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6
  • Sodium Tetraborate 12179-04-3
  • Pentahydrate Inhibitor (No number)
  • 5 yr./5000 hr.
The new John Deere Cool-Gard II...
  • Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1
  • Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6
  • Sodium Tetraborate Pentahydrate Inhibitor 12179-04-3 (yes it is now listed as one ingredient)
  • 6 yr./6000 hr.
The colors are different. Original Cool-Gard is a nice green color. Cool-Gard II is more of an amber/green color. I wish they had kept to color the same.

Cool-Gard II is compatible with original Cool-Gard. Both contain Bitrex to keep the pets and kids from drinking it.

Other than color and longer service life, I am not sure what else changed especially in regards to getting longer service life out of it since both are chemically identical. Regardless, I still drain the radiator and overflow tank and refill both every couple of years.

http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/coolants/coolants_competitive_comparisons.html
. Havolines G05 version called "Havoline Custom Blend" also comes in "Blue" or the "Yellow" color if that is not your fancy ..same ingred. as John Deere.. https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/MSDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=336221 ..I have not looked extensively enough to find if a green color exists..I don't really know what the zerex G05 consists of any more since it is protect behind the NJ trade secret barrier
 
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